The Goat Pen

He's an American

Which means as an American that he should be charged with treason

because the government told you so

That's normally the way treason works, yes.

aTm wrote:That's normally the way treason works, yes.

Funny the fine line between whistleblower and treason depending on who you piss off.

I'm not afraid of the government at all. There will be more whistle blowers, more hackers & more social media awareness to keep them on their toes. Charging him with treason is crazy. Unless you want to charge a bunch of congressmen as well.

Either Tom Sizemore is a liar (likely, but the motivation as to why is a head scratcher) or I'm incredibly impressed with the cocksmanship of Bill Clinton

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2014/ ... arys-back/

eCat wrote:

BigRedMan wrote:Don't start none, won't be none.

I could care less if the NSA spies on me. At most they will find downloaded movies and some Christy Mack porn. Other than that, I am not trying to build a bomb, make meth, or start a revolution.

And if they used the information to feed to local police about Billy Bob and his friends having a lot of chatter about meth and they do their detective work to find out they had a big ole meth lab and were able to shut it down before someone got blown up or hurt, I am find with that.

And I am all about responsible gun ownership. If you think they are monitoring people that own a dozen or so guns and talk about stocking up on ammo, probably not so much. They couldn't care less unless they see words like shooting rampage or going to kill my wife, shit like that.

Just my .02.

until the next election when some evangelical decides that Christy Mack porn is indecent and has a minimum jail sentence of 90 days in jail, and that downloaded movies are in violation of the DMCA and its a $3500 fine for all known offenders for each offense. Then you won't be so happy about the NSA snooping in your shit without justification.

This inherit trust that our government is only going to do the right thing and therefore giving up a few freedoms is ok in the name of security is exactly what they want you think. Its carte blanche for a career in spying with a blank check.

This isn't about terrorism, its about the NSA tracking a shitload of information about you in case they ever decide they *need* to investigate your ass. Of course it won't be the NSA, it will be the FBI knocking your door, or the DEA, BATF, ICE, CIA - whatever acronym the NSA serves the information too in the name of American security.

You're in IT - you think they built a security structure capable of storing untold terabytes (or whatever the largest byte designation is now) because they *weren't* going to keep tabs on as many people as possible?

See the evangelical dude won't get elected just for those reasons. Even if he is in office and tries to do that, it is political suicide.

And No, I don't trust the government on anything. All I can do and take care of is me and my own. I am a fat, broke, white boy from Indiana. WTF kinda threat am I to anyone? Stormtroppers aren't coming for my sorry ass anytime soon unless the powers that be want to kill off fat people and if that is the case, the entire country is screwed.

And of course they have built those untold terabytes of storage for that very reason of tracking someone. Anyone who was naive enough to think they were not is just plain dumb.

And the gubment has always had a way of keeping any eye on their people. Whether it was having the local magistrates in their pocket from way back when talking about the dealings Pa Kettle had with the Injuns to now with all the technology that is available. I will guran-damn-tee the gubment watchdogs have had people in the Klan, the Black Panthers, PETA, FFA, Girl Scouts, and any other large organized group for the past 100 years just to monitor what they are doing and saying. The terror attacks just made it easier public sale and now they can hide in plain sight even easier.

What does the constitution say about treason. I don't think his act is treason by definition.

http://www.nytimes.com/1861/01/25/news/ ... gewanted=1

" I am a fat, broke, white boy from Indiana. WTF kinda threat am I to anyone?"

You're a threat to your wife every time you roll over at night...

The idea that humble ole you from middle of nowhere America can't be a threat to anyone isn't justification for allowing the government to snoop thru your shit.

If you accept that they aren't just doing it to make you safer, then you should be enraged at their actions.

"See the evangelical dude won't get elected just for those reasons."

A first term African American Senator from Chicago named Barak was elected president over a white wasp war hero. Never say never. You never know when or why the political landscape will change to drive the country in a new direction.

Allen Dershowitz says that there is considerable evidence against Amanda Knox and there are people in jail for far less evidence. He gave an interesting interview on CNN talking about how if this was decided by legal authorities, she would and should be extradited back to Italy.

Just fudging the numbers just a tad..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ ... story.html

eCat wrote:The idea that humble ole you from middle of nowhere America can't be a threat to anyone isn't justification for allowing the government to snoop thru your shit.

If you accept that they aren't just doing it to make you safer, then you should be enraged at their actions.

"See the evangelical dude won't get elected just for those reasons."

A first term African American Senator from Chicago named Barak was elected president over a white wasp war hero. Never say never. You never know when or why the political landscape will change to drive the country in a new direction.

I am not saying I like it or justify it. It just doesn't matter to me or you because we are a nobodies. We are out to provide for our family and take the best vacations we can. We have ZERO power except for our one little vote and that is it.

First you can't use Barack as a measure. The Dems could have put up a clone of Adolf Hitler or a shaved monkey and get them elected. The young uneducated voters and people that are pissed at Repubs were going to vote Dem no matter what. Same thing for the 2nd go around also.

And with all that being said, I don't see a bible thumping type President ever again. They will still have a voice but I don't think it will be a major influence.

BigRedMan wrote:

eCat wrote:The idea that humble ole you from middle of nowhere America can't be a threat to anyone isn't justification for allowing the government to snoop thru your shit.

If you accept that they aren't just doing it to make you safer, then you should be enraged at their actions.

"See the evangelical dude won't get elected just for those reasons."

A first term African American Senator from Chicago named Barak was elected president over a white wasp war hero. Never say never. You never know when or why the political landscape will change to drive the country in a new direction.

I am not saying I like it or justify it. It just doesn't matter to me or you because we are a nobodies. We are out to provide for our family and take the best vacations we can. We have ZERO power except for our one little vote and that is it.

First you can't use Barack as a measure. The Dems could have put up a clone of Adolf Hitler or a shaved monkey and get them elected. The young uneducated voters and people that are pissed at Repubs were going to vote Dem no matter what. Same thing for the 2nd go around also.

And with all that being said, I don't see a bible thumping type President ever again. They will still have a voice but I don't think it will be a major influence.

you can't get too focused on one example - so maybe its not an anti porn president, the point is - what you don't think twice about doing today is being recorded and stored somewhere, and down the road you never know when the political views change. We live in an age where soft drinks larger than 16oz have attempted to be banned, where 2 states legalize a drug that is banned federally, and the IRS is targeting members of opposing political parties. Its an odd time to be resolute in your convictions to say the least.

"The Dems could have put up a clone of Adolf Hitler or a shaved monkey and get them elected"

and that is my point exactly. Bush fucked this country up so much that a man generally unqualified to be president by previous standards was elected president, and with that a whole host of his views on what America should be. It would have been worse with Sara Palin. But who do we get in the next wake of elections following a collosal fuck up? Obama win the nobel peace prize and is sending drones in to kill people like he's going to get an ice cream at Pink Berry.

eCat wrote:Allen Dershowitz says that there is considerable evidence against Amanda Knox and there are people in jail for far less evidence. He gave an interesting interview on CNN talking about how if this was decided by legal authorities, she would and should be extradited back to Italy.

What was that considerable evidence? From my understanding the considerable evidence was against the dude who dropped a load in the toilet, didn't flush it and also was known to break into houses.

I would love for this to be another example I could point to of "pretty little white girl getting protections that would not be afforded to others," but everything I've read tells me the Italians fucked up royally when investigating and protecting the evidence in the case.

Dershowitz said this is exactly pretty white girl getting protections that would not be afforded to other - he literally used that example and said if she was a homely looking girl, her ass would be locked up in Italy right now.

He listed like 4 things that he said you don't hear in the media - the forensics evidence shows that more than one person committed the murder, that she gave a false alibi, that she lied about being there, that the Italian guy indicted her as an accomplice, and a couple of other things.

This was on a BBC interview, not an American broadcast, and he said that the Italian justice system isn't some banana republic kangaroo court and that they did things the correct way. He also said that the media has it wrong in claiming she won't be extradited because of double jeopardy because her conviction was overturned, not that she was found not guilty - I don't know the nuances of the law, that is just what he said.

"Unless you want to charge a bunch of congressmen and a president as well."

fyp, rat

He listed like 4 things that he said you don't hear in the media - the forensics evidence shows that more than one person committed the murder, that she gave a false alibi, that she lied about being there, that the Italian guy indicted her as an accomplice, and a couple of other things.

It sounds like total bullshit to me from an over-empowered police force that doesn't want to be wrong and can get a conviction based on standards that would be laughed out of hand if given as the tools to get a conviction here. What Italian guy are we talking about? The guy in jail is an Ivorian country hopper who was in custody in Germany for doing all kinds of crazy break-in and burglary shit with knives (and laughably the Italian police's belief that Knox and her bf were involved is mainly because it didn't look like a real break-in to them). I think its well known that she gave a false statement implicating some other dude after a long interview with the police. The forensic evidence Ive seen all sounds like crap, certainly nothing real convincing. Blood on a knife that doesn't match the wounds, a miniscule amount of the bf's DNA on a bra (which also had miniscule amounts of tons of other dudes, and a shitload of the Ivorian's DNA all over it). I guess the "media" is probably hiding all the "real" evidence though.

As for Dershowitz claim on refusal to extradite, I have no idea about how that works/should work. They convicted her, so maybe its typical to be just like, "huh, I guess they are a real country and all"