The Goat Pen

AlabamAlum wrote:With omnipotent god(s), free will is illusory.

If God is truly omnipotent, then He is capable of creating creatures with free will. If He can't do that, then He is not omnipotent.

crashcourse wrote:I wish you were illusory

10ac wrote:I wish they were probating your will.

Don't look now, hedge, but others are not only copying your shtick, they're better at it.

A good teacher is proud when his pupils surpass him. And pupils repay their teacher badly if they remain pupils forever...

If I was grading it out, though, I'd give a C to "I wish you were illusory" (that was low hanging fruit), while I'd give an A to the "probating your will", b/c that actually reconfigured what we were talking about in terms of "will" and creatively turned it into a pleasant thought about my death...

I agree. The "probating your will" line was first rate.

Professor Tiger wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:With omnipotent god(s), free will is illusory.

If God is truly omnipotent, then He is capable of creating creatures with free will. If He can't do that, then He is not omnipotent.

How can God be omnipotent and still be able to make children?

That's a D-

I am.

Professor Tiger wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:With omnipotent god(s), free will is illusory.

If God is truly omnipotent, then He is capable of creating creatures with free will. If He can't do that, then He is not omnipotent.

If an omnipotent god creates a person, he will know with absolute certainty exactly what they will do 1000 millennia before they breathe their first breath. The person did exactly what the all-powerful god knew they would do when they were created. If the god did not know what they would do, then the god was not omnipotent to begin with.

If you create something that does as you knew he would do and cannot act contrary to that, then there is no free will.

AlabamAlum wrote:

Professor Tiger wrote:

AlabamAlum wrote:With omnipotent god(s), free will is illusory.

If God is truly omnipotent, then He is capable of creating creatures with free will. If He can't do that, then He is not omnipotent.

If an omnipotent god creates a person, he will know with absolute certainty exactly what they will do 1000 millennia before they breathe their first breath. The person did exactly what the all-powerful god knew they would do when they were created. If the god did not know what they would do, then the god was not omnipotent to begin with.

If you create something that does as you knew he would do and cannot act contrary to that, then there is no free will.

It appears that you are confusing omnipotence with omniscience.

If you create something that does as you knew he would do and cannot act contrary to that, then there is no free will.

An omnipotent God is perfectly capable of creating a being who can act contrary to His will.

But I can see how Calvinistic predestination appeals to your Scottish DNA.

true omnipotence includes omniscience.

Professor Tiger wrote:

If you create something that does as you knew he would do and cannot act contrary to that, then there is no free will.

An omnipotent God is perfectly capable of creating a being who can act contrary to His will.

But I can see how Calvinistic predestination appeals to your Scottish DNA.

But the god would know they would act contrary or he is not omnipotent.

Omnipotence, by definition, can create a creature with free will. Omniscience can know far in advance what the creature will freely choose without predetermining what that choice will be.

Oh, let's not get into a grade school paradox: Can your omnipotent god make a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?

To be truly omnipotent, you are also omniscient. But are we saying that your god is powerful, but just can't know what his creations do?

But are we saying that your god is powerful, but just can't know what his creations do?

More like God is powerful, but He just chooses not to decide for them what his creations do.

lol, he creates a being that he could know exactly what they are going to do, but he just makes himself forget so he can toss them in a lake of fire if they don't act like he wanted them too even though he could have known before hand (and changed) what they were gonna do before he ever created them?

That's the funniest thing I have heard today. Your god is a psychopath.

I guess you want a god that creates robots, that merely carry out their programming. That's too easy for an omnipotent God.

Instead He makes creatures that can either choose Him, or not. It's like the old saying, "If you love something, let it go..." Some choose to come back, some choose not to.

So, he creates a mass murder with full knowledge of what they would do, but uses a Jedi mind trick on himself so he will forget, so he could say they had free will? Even though he knew that they could not act contrary to his his prescience if he chose to not make himself forget? And creates them anyway.

Would you rather have a wife who freely chooses you, or an inflatable doll?

If she decides not to choose you, and goes her own way, and you let her do so, what's wrong with that?