The Goat Pen

eCat wrote:Pay your bills? For who? Every person in America owes $46K on the national debt and Washington wants to raise the debt ceiling so that number can grow more.

I don't blame anyone for saying no thanks. While I agree they probably don't understand that defaulting would result in higher interest rates which in turn would increase our debt, Washington politicians from both sides aren't willing to make guarantees that will prevent us from being in this same situation again down the road.

Owlman wrote:

eCat wrote:Pay your bills? For who? Every person in America owes $46K on the national debt and Washington wants to raise the debt ceiling so that number can grow more.

I don't blame anyone for saying no thanks. While I agree they probably don't understand that defaulting would result in higher interest rates which in turn would increase our debt, Washington politicians from both sides aren't willing to make guarantees that will prevent us from being in this same situation again down the road.

You should blame them. If you don't increase the debt ceiling then the amount people owe goes up based on interest payments. Take that 46K to 100K all due to interest. You decrease your debt by changing your budget not by threatening not to pay what you already owe.

One of the things that just galls me is the Christian fundamentalist.

Owlman wrote:businesses in trouble do not get out of that trouble by getting rid of their ability to borrow. They negotiate a change in their loans, or extend them while changing their business plan.

Beginning in early December, President Bush, vice-president Dick Cheney, members of the cabinet and other officials then embarked on a series of truly extraordinary public statements about John, referring to him repeatedly as an "al-Qaida fighter", a terrorist and a traitor. I think it fair to say there has never been a case quite like this in the history of the US, in which officials at the highest levels of the government made such prejudicial statements about an individual citizen who had not yet been charged with any crime.

I will offer only a small sample of these statements. In an interview at the White House on 21 December 2001, President Bush said John was "the first American al-Qaida fighter that we have captured". Donald Rumsfeld, secretary of defence, told reporters at a press briefing that John had been "captured by US forces with an AK-47 in his hands". Colin Powell, secretary of state, said John had "brought shame upon his family". Rudy Giuliani, New York mayor, remarked: "I believe the death penalty is the appropriate remedy to consider."

John Ashcroft, the US attorney general, staged two televised press conferences in which he accused John of attacking the US. "Americans who love their country do not dedicate themselves to killing Americans," he declared.

A federal judge took the unusual step of writing to the New York Times criticising the attorney general for violating "Justice Department guidelines on the release of information related to criminal proceedings that are intended to ensure that a defendant is not prejudiced when such an announcement is made".

Even the ultra-conservative National Review thought Ashcroft had gone too far in making such prejudicial comments about a pending prosecution. It criticised the comments as "inappropriate" and "gratuitous", stating that in the future "it would be better for the attorney general simply to announce the facts of the indictments, and to avoid extra comments which might unintentionally imperil successful prosecutions".

Owlman wrote:No agreement, a plan will pass with 1trillion or less in cuts with no tax increases, the U.S. will be downgraded, members of the House and Senate, Republican and Democrats will gripe at the rating agencies and finally look at their primary participation in causing the economic downturn, Obama will express support for this and then the Congressional tea-partiers will then say Obama is anti-business and now be against another thing Obama says he's for that once was supported by Republicans.