The Goat Pen

eCat wrote:that would have been the solution before Kaepernick and if the general public didn't know the reason behind it.

its no solution now.

Yeah, it's a solution. Not an ideal one, but it beats the torture of every single team going through the throes of which players do what during the anthem.

My alma mater (insert Butch Jones joke here) is in the locker room during the anthem (AND a prayer) and has been for 50+ years. We come stumbling out of the giant T formed by the band afterwards, otherwise I'm sure some of our players would be getting all socially conscious (in part because we can't beat fucking florida).

It's not like the NFL has a longstanding tradition of trotting their players out to participate in the anthem.

bluetick wrote:

eCat wrote:that would have been the solution before Kaepernick and if the general public didn't know the reason behind it.

its no solution now.

Yeah, it's a solution. Not an ideal one, but it beats the torture of every single team going through the throes of which players do what during the anthem.

My alma mater (insert Butch Jones joke here) is in the locker room during the anthem (AND a prayer) and has been for 50+ years. We come stumbling out of the giant T formed by the band afterwards, otherwise I'm sure some of our players would be getting all socially conscious (in part because we can't beat fucking florida).

It's not like the NFL has a longstanding tradition of trotting their players out to participate in the anthem.

the only people that would accept it are the people that are accepting kneeling now.

bluetick wrote:Simple solution: play the anthem while all the teams are still in the locker room getting final instructions before running out onto the field pre-kickoff. From what I remember that was SOP in the NFL before the 90s.

Better solution - stop playing the anthem. It's a sporting event not a fucking call to arms. It's a completely ridiculous tradition and now is the perfect time to end it.

I remember NC State fans used to (maybe they still do, I haven't been to a State game in awhile) substitute "Wolfpaick!!" for "free" when they got to the part that said "O'er the land of the free". I suspect at least some other fan bases do the same. I found that to be way more disrespectful to the anthem than this kneeling stuff, but in the end, it's just a song...

eCat wrote:

hedge wrote:Thankfully we live in a country of laws so that people can't be fired from their jobs for peacefully exercising their constitutional rights. The NFL rule book nor the offended feelings of some citizens doesn't trump the Constitution...

you absolutely can be fired for peacefully exercising your constitutional rights

Totally correct. For a guy who was smart enough to get into UNC, hedge has an amazingly poor grasp of the Constitution. The first amendment says the GOVERNMENT cannot punish you simply for what you say. The Constitution has no bearing on the NFL situation because the government isn't punishing anybody.

The employers of a private entity (the NFL and its owners) have every right to tell their employees (Kaepernick et al) what they can say and do, especially on company time, on company property, in front of company TV cameras, and ESPECIALLY when their employees behavior is driving away customers and costing the employers money.

If any of us made statements on private company time, on private company property, even at home on facebook, that caused our employers to lose customers and profits, we would all be canned immediately. The "Freedom of Speech" canard wouldn't save you, and no tears would be shed for what you brought on yourself. These kind of Leftist antics will just drive away more and customers from the NFL, including eCat and me. The virtue signalling kneelers will do to the NFL what the snowflakes did to Mizzou and LGBT worship did to ESPN.

Cletus wrote:Better solution - stop playing the anthem. It's a sporting event not a fucking call to arms. It's a completely ridiculous tradition and now is the perfect time to end it.

Mention that in front of a band parent and they'll scratch your eyes out.

World War I wasn't the only issue weighing heavily on fans. On Sept. 4, the day before the first game, a bomb ripped through the Chicago Federal Building, killing four people and injuring 30. The Industrial Workers of the World were thought to be behind the attack, a retaliation for the conviction of several IWW members on federal sedition charges in the court of Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis. (Two years later, Landis was appointed commissioner of baseball, a position he held until 1944.) Domestic terrorism didn't exactly generate interest in a lighthearted day at the ball game. For the opener at Comiskey, newspapers optimistically estimated that a sellout crowd would drop anywhere from 50 cents for a bleacher ticket to $3 for a box seat. When only 19,000 and change showed, a Chicago Herald-Examiner headline proclaimed, "Scalpers Are Making No Money."

Although the Cubs festooned the park in as much red, white and blue as possible, the glum crowd in the stands for Game 1 remained nearly silent through most of Ruth's 1-0 shutout victory over Chicago's Hippo Vaughn. Not even the Cubs Claws, the forerunners to Wrigley's Bleacher Bums, could gin up enthusiasm. "For a baseball game in a world's Championship series," the Chicago Tribune wrote, "yesterday's combat between the Cubs and Red Sox was perhaps the quietest on record."


With one exception: the seventh-inning stretch. As was common during sporting events, a military band was on hand to play, and while the fans were on their feet, the musicians fired up "The Star-Spangled Banner." They weren't the only active-duty servicemen on the field, though. Red Sox third baseman Fred Thomas was playing the Series while on furlough from the Navy, where he'd been learning seamanship at the Great Lakes Naval Training Station in Chicago. But Thomas' months of military training had hardly dulled his diamond skills. According to the Society of American Baseball Research, the station's commander, Capt. William Moffett, was a baseball fanatic who actively recruited athletes for the training center's team. Thomas, who started playing professionally right out of high school in Wisconsin, later said he "had it made at Great Lakes. All had to do was play baseball." So after the Red Sox went through nine third basemen during the season, they took a shot and asked the Navy whether he could join them as they took on the Cubs. The military said yes, and Thomas stood at his usual position on the diamond during Game 1's seventh-inning stretch, present at the creation of a tradition.

Upon hearing the opening notes of Key's song from the military band, Thomas immediately faced the flag and snapped to attention with a military salute. The other players on the field followed suit, in "civilian" fashion, meaning they stood and put their right hands over their hearts. The crowd, already standing, showed its first real signs of life all day, joining in a spontaneous sing-along, haltingly at first, then finishing with flair. The scene made such an impression that The New York Times opened its recap of the game not with a description of the action on the field but with an account of the impromptu singing: "First the song was taken up by a few, then others joined, and when the final notes came, a great volume of melody rolled across the field. It was at the very end that the onlookers exploded into thunderous applause and rent the air with a cheer that marked the highest point of the day's enthusiasm."

The Cubs front office realized it had witnessed something unique. For the next two games, it had the band play "The Star-Spangled Banner" during the seventh-inning stretch, to similarly enthusiastic crowds. By Game 3, a bigger crowd of 27,000 was in attendance. Not to be outdone, the Red Sox ratcheted up the pageantry when the Series relocated to Boston for the next three games. At Fenway Park, "The Star-Spangled Banner" moved from the seventh-inning stretch to the pregame festivities, and the team coupled the playing of the song with the introduction of wounded soldiers who had received free tickets.

Like the Chicago fans, the normally reserved Boston crowd erupted for the pregame anthem and the hobbled heroes. As the Tribune wrote of the wounded soldiers at Game 6, "Their entrance on crutches supported by their comrades evoked louder cheers than anything the athletes did on the diamond."

"If any of us made statements on private company time, on private company property, even at home on facebook, that caused our employers to lose customers and profits, we would all be canned immediately."

So can an employer fire you for owning a gun?

If I were to protest against gun control laws on company time, on company property, in front of cameras during the recording of a company commercial, and my protests caused my employer to lose a huge number gun control advocates which were a huge part of the whole customer base, and led to millions in lost profits, then yes, they'd have every right to can me.

You just gave me an idea: I propose that during the national anthem, pro-life players should plant little white crosses at center field to protest the slaughter of unborn children. Pro-second amendment players should wave around guns in front of the cameras to protest against the war on gun ownership. Players who believe in a balanced federal budget should walk around throwing monopoly money into trashcans to protest the national debt. By liberal "logic" that would be a beautiful and praiseworthy expression of their constitutional right to free speech" right?

Or are protests of liberal causes the only ones allowed during the national anthem in the NFL?

hedge wrote:"If any of us made statements on private company time, on private company property, even at home on facebook, that caused our employers to lose customers and profits, we would all be canned immediately."

So can an employer fire you for owning a gun?

if gun use is in violation of their policies they can

So a company can have a policy that says none of its employees can own a gun?

No. The employer would have to prove their company was harmed by one of their employees simply owning a gun. That would be a VERY difficult case to make. Maybe it would apply if an Amish pastor got fired for packing, but that's about it. Plus, if that were possible, the Democrats would have tried it a long time ago. They may give that idea a try when all those snowflakes go to law school and become judges.

This just in: the Resistance by Deplorables against liberals using the NFL to indoctrinate them has begun:

Alejandro Villanueva Becomes NFL Top-Seller Overnight
The former Army Ranger’s rise is 'unprecedented.'
Sports By Diana Crandall

1 min ago

Alejandro Villanueva, a U.S. army veteran and the Pittsburgh Steelers’ offensive lineman, beat out Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Derek Car to become the best-selling NFL player in the league on Monday, ESPN reports. Orders for Villanueva’s gear, including jerseys and number t-shirts, poured in after Villanueva became the lone Steeler to come outside of the tunnel to stand, hand on heart, during the national anthem on Sunday. The rest of the Steelers remained in the locker room for the duration of the song.

When then-49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick first began kneeling to protest police brutality against African Americans, Villanueva had this to say:

“I don’t know if the most effective way is to sit down during the national anthem with a country that’s providing you freedom, providing you $16 million a year … when there are black minorities that are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for less than $20,000 a year,” Villanueva reportedly told ESPN last year.

Here's a telling finale to the story:

ESPN notes that it’s “unprecedented” to see an offensive lineman’s sales spike at the top for any period — but there’s at least one person who isn’t happy with Villanueva’s decision.

“I was looking for 100 percent participation. We were gonna be respectful of our football team,” Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin reportedly said.

Hey coach, Villanueva is an Army ranger. He is patriotic, disciplined, principled, and has more character in his jock strap than you ever will. He doesn't care what you or any other identity politics ninnies think. Suck it, Tomlin.

I wonder how many Kaepernick jerseys were sold yesterday. I think I'll go buy a Villanueva jersey this afternoon.

Trump: Draft Dodger Using Phony Patriotism for Political Gain and Revenge Against NFL - HLN

Appearing on HLN Monday, the anti-Trump conservative railed against Trump, and referenced his tenure as a USFL owner to suggest that his real motivation with his latest rhetoric on the Anthem protests is to exact revenge on the NFL.

“Donald Trump is a complete fraud on this,” Ziegler said. “And the media’s missing one of the biggest issues of all. He is a former USFL owner who has a vendetta for decades against the NFL. He is using fake patriotism to attack the National Football League.”

Ziegler added:

“This guy, who is a draft dodger, who mocks John McCain as the wrong type of war hero, is using fake patriotism to gin up his cult-like base to attack the NFL in a clear vendetta!”

CNN found somebody to say bad things about Trump? Shocking...

Shockingly easy, actually.

At least this guy has a different slant with the USFL thing. 180 million other people are just calling Trump a bum, a bigot, or a racist.

Better solution - stop playing the anthem. It's a sporting event not a fucking call to arms. It's a completely ridiculous tradition and now is the perfect time to end it.

The song became our national anthem because of its popularity when played at sporting events, not the other way around.

Good point. It is a pleasant change of pace, indeed.

The Resistance by Deplorable bums, bigots and racists against the political indoctrination by the NFL continues:

Steelers Fans Burn Apparel After Decision to Skip National Anthem

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ste ... li=BBnbfcL

More effects from the liberal politicization of the NFL:

‘Sunday Night Football’ Ratings Down Again On Day Of Player Protests

On a day full of criticism from Donald Trump, political protests, linked arms, players taking a knee or not coming on the field at all during the national anthem, and renewed pleas for unity from the league, NBC and the NFL took a ratings hit on Sunday Night Football. In metered market numbers, the primetime matchup that saw the Washington Redskins beat the Oakland Raiders 27-10 snared an 11.6/20, the worst SNF has performed this season so far. It’s an 8% dip from the early numbers of last week’s game, Atlanta’s 34-23 win over Green Bay. Amid cheers and boos from fans at FedEx Field in Maryland last night, the third week of the SNF season declined 10% from early numbers of the comparable game of last year on September 25, 2016.

Sunday’s SNF peaked with a 12.r5/20 during the second quarter from 9-9:30 PM ET. Still, NFL ratings are down double-digits this season so far after taking a similar tackle-for-loss last year.

http://deadline.com/2017/09/redskins-su ... 202176141/

Reasons Why Trump Has Taken on the NFL - BBC News

It's strategic:

Things have been rough for the president recently.
Once again it appears that Congress is going to be unable to repeal and replace Obamacare health insurance reforms, despite the president's assurances that doing so would be "easy".
That transparent wall he touted? It currently seems more likely that the president will strike a deal with Democrats to enshrine protections for undocumented immigrants who entered the US as children - a move anathema to portions of his conservative base - than get funding from Congress to build the border barrier.
The candidate the president was in Alabama to boost, Senator Luther Strange, could go down to defeat on Tuesday, representing an embarrassing rebuke to the president from his most loyal supporters.

His approval ratings may be climbing, but there's been a lot of bad news recently - and more could be coming.

So what better way to change the subject than to restart a highly charged cultural debate about the appropriateness of political protests against the national anthem; one that allows the president, much to the delight of his base, to sing the praises of the US military and wrap himself tightly in the red, white and blue?