Ostensibly Hoops

[Saint]

I think the issue with LeBron is this idea that he's one of the all-time great players but he hasn't won shit to prove it. He's the poster child for the modern star with all the flash and cash but no ring.

[hedge]

He'll win a couple of titles and put up great individual numbers and of course be recognized as a great player, but he won't be remembered as an alltime great champion. IOW, he'll be the Wilt Chamberlain of his generation...

[AlabamAlum]

I hate LeBron with the white-hot passion of 1,000 suns going supernova.

[Bluecat]

While the Finals meltdown was disturbing (or enthralling, depending on your taste), I wouldn't shrug LeBron off just yet. Jordan had to get past the Pistons and learn how to be a teammate before he achieved God status.

[Saint]

yeah but it didn't take him 9 years and he never lost a finals

[Bluecat]

Never lost a Finals, true. Did he reach any Finals by age 26?

[Ron Mexico]

Jordan went down swinging against those Detroit teams, which were much better, deeper, and more physical than this Dallas squad. Jordan didn't beat Detroit right away, but he took everything they had and kept coming. I don't think Dallas really made any effort to get physical with LeBron or would even be capable of doing that if they had wanted to. The mere fact that LeBron lost isn't such a big deal, but the inexplicable, feeble disappearing act is tough to justify.

[TheBigMook]

Jordan went down swinging against those Detroit teams, which were much better, deeper, and more physical than this Dallas squad. Jordan didn't beat Detroit right away, but he took everything they had and kept coming. I don't think Dallas really made any effort to get physical with LeBron or would even be capable of doing that if they had wanted to. The mere fact that LeBron lost isn't such a big deal, but the inexplicable, feeble disappearing act is tough to justify.

Rashard Lewis banged his boo, damn it! How can you expect him to concentrate when all his favorite womens are guts deep with non-Lebron NBA dick! Yeah I'm sayin' Bron-Bron's got a little oediple complex too! Yeah I'm shouting this! Yes they deserve to die, and I hope the burn in Hell!

[Bluecat]

LeBron certainly has a lot of growing up to do. I think the pivotal moment of the Finals was in Game 4(?) when Wade chewed his ass publicly on the court. He disappeared after that. Petulant-like, as if to say go ahead D-Wade, do it on your own motherfucker. Shameful.

However, if the man-child grows up, develops a post game and wins 6-8 titles in the next 10 years, this will be seen as his "growing up" period, just as Jordan's was in the late 80's. When Jordan was 26 (which would be what, 1988? 89?) did anyone foresee a pair of threepeats ahead of him? Sheeeeeiiiiiit, I remember people wondering if he'd ever get one. There's a lot of revisionist history regarding Air Jordan. He was the best I've ever seen -- both as the physical highlight freak early in his career and as a champion later. But, he didn't have the HEART OF A CHAMPION until he hit his 30s.

Not saying it's gonna happen for LeBron, just not willing to throw a shovel of dirt on James' career and bury him just yet.

[Saint]

Jordan took the Bulls from shit to the playoffs immediately, going toe-to-toe with the mighty Celtics in his 2nd year. He won a championship at UNC and he won a title in his 7th season in the league. and in all 6 of his championships, he was by far the driving force. LeBron James is nowhere near that level. he came close in Cleveland but now that he's hiding behind Wade, he'll never be the big dog. and he's not a man-child either. he's 26 and has 8 pro years under his belt.

quit making excuses and revising Jordan's career. James can still do a lot of things in his career but he'll never be Michael Jordan.

[eCat]

you're not going to make any headway arguing about Jordan with UNC guys.

[TheBigMook]

Shrink wrap stadium!

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/blog/f ... =oly-wp332

[Bluecat]

Stu agreed with the only point I was making.

James still has time to do a lot with his career.

I don't know why the baby blue boys got their panties in a wad. I do not disparage Jordan's excellence. He is the best I've ever seen and I loved watching him play. He was the only reason I watched NBA basketball in the 90's. I merely pointed out that even his Airness had to go through some growing pains before becoming the greatest champion of our generation. And it's not out of the realm of possibility to think that LeBron is still in the midst of his maturation process.

[Bklyn]

Shaq went through it too...and he should've won 6 - 8 championships, himself.

[hedge]

"I don't know why the baby blue boys got their panties in a wad."

So simply disagreeing that LeBron isn't on the same level as Jordan at this point in their careers is getting one's panties in a wad? I guess you didn't notice Cletus and D'gaul making similar comments to what Stu was saying about Jordan vis a vis LeBron (not that that necessarily proves anything, but it does indicate that it's not just blind Carolina fandom that is the basis for the Jordan >>>> LeBron assessements)...

[Jungle Rat]

Hedge has been real testy lately. Almost like he's having his period.

[Bluecat]

How is Jordan's career at age 26 superior to LeBron's at age 26? Maybe it is, I don't know for sure, but MJ was still Potentially the Greatest at the same point in his career that LeBron is now. Not actually the greatest ever.

When we compare both careers when LeBron's is finally done, I'm willing to bet that Jordan's is superior. Probably even far superior. I just think the media (and people in general, including here at TGP) want to hold LeBron to an unfair standard at this point in his career.

He's brought a lot of it on himself with his self-marketing. And by skipping college, he did himself a disservice in terms of buying time for maturation and possibly winning an NCAA title which would have relieved some (not all) of the pressure he's facing now. He's been around eight years, so he's supposed to be a savvy veteran. In basketball sense, that's true I guess. But he's still just 26 years old. Perhaps the current crucible he's in will form the iron will inside him to achieve greatness. Perhaps. The way he wilted and vanished under the heat (pun intended) this past week however, doesn't bode well for his chances. I hope he does, however, find the will to elevate himself to that level. Being someone who has only a slight interest in the NBA, I prefer to witness great success rather than great failure (much like I prefer to see Tiger Woods succeed rather than fail. My interest in the U.S. Open this week is greatly diminished because he's not playing).

[Dave23]

The Peoria Chiefs have come up with a promotion that is lacking in substance.

Intentionally so.

The Cubs’ Midwest League affiliate will hold a LeBron James 2011 NBA Championship Replica Ring Giveaway for fans at the game Thursday.

In that the rings are nonexistent, the Chiefs are going for intangibles rather than anything tangible.

“We’re going to put up a table in the front that says, ‘LeBron James’ Trophy Case,’ ’’ Chiefs media manager Nathan Baliva told Quick Hits on Tuesday. ‘‘We’ll have a little spot where the ring will be, a spot where the Finals MVP would be and then pretend like we’re David Stern the first night of the next season when he gives out the rings. When our fans come in, we’ll say, ‘Here you go. Here’s your replica ring.’ And we’ll be handing them nothing.”

Will rings come in nonexistent boxes, as well? ‘‘They will.’’

Quick Hits would be glad to run a photo of the nonexistent rings, but none exist.

The Chiefs also had hoped to take the fourth inning off to pay tribute to James taking the fourth quarter of every Finals game off.

‘‘If LeBron doesn’t need to show up in the fourth, maybe we won’t either,’’ Chiefs president Rocky Vonachen said.

‘‘We got rejected on that one unfortunately,’’ Baliva said. ‘‘I was told we got a laugh.’’

[hedge]

"How is Jordan's career at age 26 superior to LeBron's at age 26?"

Stu and D'gaul answered that:

"Jordan took the Bulls from shit to the playoffs immediately, going toe-to-toe with the mighty Celtics in his 2nd year."

"Jordan went down swinging against those Detroit teams, which were much better, deeper, and more physical than this Dallas squad. Jordan didn't beat Detroit right away, but he took everything they had and kept coming... The mere fact that LeBron lost isn't such a big deal, but the inexplicable, feeble disappearing act is tough to justify."

So the point is, there are plenty of guys who can put up huge numbers in the regular season, but if you wilt in the playoffs, esp. as you go further in the playoffs (LeBron, or at least so far), that doesn't compare well with somebody who got better and better as he got deeper into the playoffs (Jordan). I haven't looked, but I bet Jordan's playoff numbers were usually better than his already gaudy regular season numbers in any given year. That says something about the type of competitor he was, not just how good he was dribbling and shooting and defending. And I think that competitiveness if definitely a major aspect of an all champions. As you said, maybe LeBron will show this level of competitive drive, but so far he hasn't done it...

[BigRedMan]

Granted this article was from 1998 BUT keep in mind this is tyring to prove my point that he was very well protected in the league....and well to keep poking the powder blue with a stick.

"Michael Jordan hasn't fouled out of a game since 1992. Remarkable? I don't think so. Dog-bites-man stuff. He has committed more than 2,500 fouls but fouled out only 10 times in his career. Four of those were in his first season, before he became "Air" Jordan. He got caught fouling 285 times his first season. His next full season, he got caught fouling 217 times but run out none. By 1997, they could catch him fouling only 156 times."

"The records show that people got caught fouling him almost 8,000 times. Consider that he owns the record for the most free throws made in one half--20. Also the record for the most in one quarter--14 (on a separate occasion). He led the league in free throws twice (972, one season) even though he is the last guy rival teams would want to send to the foul line."