Alabama Crimson Tide

Professor Tiger · Post by **Professor Tiger** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:01 pm

Javier Arenas would be pissed to hear you say that.

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:34 pm

Consensus all-American, and future NFL player, Javier Arenas set the SEC record for returns with TDs. Out of his 125 career returns, a grand total of 7 were brought back for TDs. Seven.

BAMAFEVER · Post by **BAMAFEVER** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:27 pm

I bet you didn't expect Vinnie to have 2 pick 6's, either.

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Correct.

Professor Tiger · Post by **Professor Tiger** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:01 pm

AlabamAlum wrote:Consensus all-American, and future NFL player, Javier Arenas set the SEC record for returns with TDs. Out of his 125 career returns, a grand total of 7 were brought back for TDs. Seven.

Correct. So why do you dismiss kickoffs as inconsequential part of the game?

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:37 pm

Not kickoffs, they're important. I simply do not factor in long returns for TDs as a metric for comparing teams, and here's why: The best homerun hitting return man in the 80+ year history of the SEC scored a TD in less than 6% of his touches. It's not a realistic expectation.

Professor Tiger · Post by **Professor Tiger** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:16 pm

Kick returner Devin Hester was the ONLY reason the Chicago Bears went to the Super Bowl in '06. It sure wasn't Rex Grosman.

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:43 pm

Okay.

GBJs · Post by **GBJs** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:18 pm

AA... they won't listen.

Prof...Why do you hate Rex?

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:42 pm

You're right; don't know why I even try

hedge · Post by **hedge** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:46 pm

AlabamAlum wrote:No. I no more factor Alabama taking two kicks back for TDs any more than I would factor the Bama basketball team's ability to make halfcourt shots.

Considering that there are really only two possible "opportunities" in a basketball game for this to happen (last second shots at the end of the first half or the end of the game, and there's only a 50/50 chance your team would have possession in either case in any given game, so that cuts the number of "opportunities" in half), I don't see how you can compare that to a game in which you had, what?, 10 opportunities to return KO's and punts? Any low scoring game probably means there are alot of punts and any high scoring game means there are lots of kickoffs. A half court shot in basketball only happens in the somewhat rare case that a game is close enough to even be winnable with a last second heave (less rare, obviously, with an end of the half heave, but still not something you see very often, unlike punt and kickoff returns which you see multiple times in every football game). It's just not a very good analogy...

hedge · Post by **hedge** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:49 pm

AlabamAlum wrote:Consensus all-American, and future NFL player, Javier Arenas set the SEC record for returns with TDs. Out of his 125 career returns, a grand total of 7 were brought back for TDs. Seven.

Hmmm, I wonder how many college hoops players (consensus AA and future NBA player or no) has ever hoisted 125 halfcourt shots in their lives, much less made 7. Again, just a poor analogy on your part...

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:24 pm

It doesn't matter; percentage-wise, kickoff returns happen less often.

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:27 pm

It's not a poor analogy, you're just not smart enough to grasp the point: that is, returns for touchdowns are too rare to be a reliable metric.

Professor Tiger · Post by **Professor Tiger** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:45 am

GBJs wrote:Prof...Why do you hate Rex?

[youtube]u3PrOu-YBv0[/youtube]

hedge · Post by **hedge** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:24 pm

AlabamAlum wrote:It doesn't matter; percentage-wise, kickoff returns happen less often.

There are three types of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics....

hedge · Post by **hedge** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:29 pm

AlabamAlum wrote:It's not a poor analogy, you're just not smart enough to grasp the point: that is, returns for touchdowns are too rare to be a reliable metric.

I guess you just disregarded my comment about "returns that set up easy scores." Granted, not many kick returns go for TD's, but plenty put the offense in easy scoring position. Not many half court misses do that (the championship winning basket for NCState in 1983 being the most famous exception). Again, very poor analogy on your part. And you are plenty smart enough to realize it. Just too proud (and stubborn) to admit it...

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:40 pm

We weren't talking about long returns that set up scores by the offense. If that had happened, I would credit the offense. That didn't happen, it wasn't the topic at hand, and therefore I dismissed your unwelcomed strawman without a second thought.

hedge · Post by **hedge** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:49 am

So you're telling me that if those two TD kick returns had been stopped at the 5 yard line and then Bama's offense had scored on the next possession in each case, you would've credited Bama's offense and then changed your whole tune to the effect of "Wow, I really didn't think Bama's offense was going to score all those TD's, boy was I wrong"?

AlabamAlum · Post by **AlabamAlum** » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:21 am

Okay.

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