North Carolina Tar Heels

[AugustWest]

New? Your own reports show you've been cheating at least since 1997. Your problem is you got arrogant with the BOG, NCAA and the press in your back pocket. You stopped taking precautions. Don't worry a couple of years ago Thorpe started a policy that administrators have to keep all incrimination info in their heads and take no notes.

[hedge]

New at getting caught...

[AugustWest]

That's what I was saying. Someone who's never been in trouble before has no idea what to do when they do get in trouble.

[hedge]

That's how I read what DS was saying. The academic fraud BUSINESS...

[AugustWest]

When the fraud gets a big as it is at U*NC there's just no way to hide it. People will send e-mails rather than walk across campus for a face to face, frat boys will get wind of and sign up for no-show classes, people will see your basketball players driving SUV's and Camaro SS's and post pics on twitter. You just cant hide it.

U*NC thought they were covered by the powerful people they have in high places and to a large extent they been correct because they have largely avoided punishment for offenses that would have shut down any other athletic department. What U*NC does not have control over are the opinions of non-kool aid drinking fans. Your reputation among anybody that isn't a died in the wool U*NC fan is totally in the shitter. You're mentioned along with Miami and SMU as a corrupt school. Certainly you can live with that price as long as you get to keep your banners

[hedge]

"Your reputation among anybody that isn't a died in the wool U*NC fan is totally in the shitter."

Well, it always was in the shitter with the Wuffies and various other rivals, but I think you overestimate what the casual fan thinks. IMO, most people who are not rivals or have built up some chatroom animosity probably are indifferent at best about "what goes on" at other schools. I know I am...

[AugustWest]

Yeah it was in the shitter with us because we had a good idea of what was going on over there. It's hard to hide stuff from your neighbor. AFA your rep with fans in Texas and Cali no I dont think they think about U*NC very much but when they do it's gone from "clean program" to "dirty". U*NC has spent decades building an image as "the perfect program" so that's a lot of time and effort in the crapper.

Whether you want to admit it or not even your perception of U*NC has changed or at least your presentation of your opinion has changed. You've gone from bragging about not needing to cheat to "everybody does it".

[hedge]

I think you have me mistaken for someone else. I may have ridden the coattails of the reputation that we supposedly had, and may have even flapped me jowls about it on occasion, but I was never one to beat the drum of squeaky clean "do it the right way" stuff. I still appreciate the fambly feeling we have tried to engender with the hoops program, and I think that's valid, but maybe not terribly much more so than at other programs (certainly other top programs). Now that's not to say I'm proud of any of this academic shennanigans or the tom fool facebook postings by what's his name that started all the shit for the football program, nobody would be, but my pride hasn't been wounded by any of this, mainly b/c I was never as prideful about those aspects of the program as you seem to believe I was. I'm more in the antiK mold than the Ben Washburn mold, although I freely admit that I never thought the Ben Washburn type of fans were wrong to take pride in the "doing it the right way" stuff, but of course they have been the ones most hurt by it. Those people's chagrin and shame are what you are delighting in, not mine, b/c I'm not ashamed. Mildly annoyed, yes (which I'm sure pleases you as well), but I'm not feeling anything like you wish I felt, no matter how much you blather on about it...

[DooKSucks]

I started out in the Washburn camp but have converted to the AntiK/Hedge camp. Just win, baby! (and don't get caught!)

[Owlman]

There is a difference between what the school should know about and things they can't determine (shenanigans in the High School for example, things that the NCAA didn't initially pick-up outside of the program, etc.)

[hedge]

Yeah, but "the school" is a pretty vague term. Who is "the school"? The chancellor? The president? The football coach? I doubt if some department head (in this case, the AfAm dept head) is going around announcing in staff meetings that he is signing off on clearly sub-standard classes. It's just not the kind of thing that gets touted. For instance, many of my friends got A's in Italian when they went on a trip to Italy with Dr. Raou, yeah, they absorbed some Italian culture (and plenty more Italian alcohol) and whatnot, but none of them could speak a word of Italian outside of "ciao". Same with all those summer "travel abroad" programs (yes, I took one to London, got A's for 2 semester credits for going to some plays, a couple of castles and dozens of pubs). But b/c there weren't any athletes on those trips, nobody gives a shit. Is "the school" supposed to "know" about all this? Is the chancellor supposed to personally review every class in every department and make a personal evaluation of if they are up to "standard"? What is the standard? It's ridiculous, we're talking about liberal arts shit here, not chemistry or med school. If they started giving no-show classes in those departments and schools, then I'd worry. But AfAm? English lit? Foreign language? C'mon....

[AugustWest]

I believe this has to do with the concept of "agency". Hedge, DS can answer this better than I can but it's my understanding that anyone that is paid by "The University" becomes "The University" at least as far as their duties are concerned. In other words a professor is "The school" regarding teaching of classes a coach is "The school" regarding his team activities etc.. Penn st had some liability for Sanduskey because he was molesting boys while performing in a official capacity on campus. If he had been doing it to random boys at a truck stop PSU would have no liability.

Did you ever have a class at U*NC that never met? I mean a class that you signed up for, but never attended a class or talked to the professor or wrote a paper yet at the end of the semester you got a grade?

[Owlman]

I would think it would be anybody in a position of authority or when it involved multiple parties in that position that should have been able to discover. The professors know the easy courses and what is being done in them. We know what are colleagues are doing, especially if it's more than one semester.

[AugustWest]

Assuming Hedge and you are talking about U*NC's situation, Nag'aro had not had a review in over a decade at the time of his retirement.

[DooKSucks]

Fuck that agency bullshit. Let's talk about equitable distribution, alimony, child custody and child support. Time to get paid!

[AugustWest]

Yep, rack up thousands of dollars in legal fees and the cunt gets it all anyway.

[hedge]

"Did you ever have a class at U*NC that never met? I mean a class that you signed up for, but never attended a class or talked to the professor or wrote a paper yet at the end of the semester you got a grade?"

I don't recall writing a paper or taking a test for the 6 hours of A credit I got on that London trip, but it's possible we may have had to write a short synopsis of the plays we attended. We did spend a great deal of time in pubs with both the professors whom our fees had allowed to travel with us chatting about this and that. It was a great experience, far more valuable than the poli-sci and psych 101 and econ 101 (etc) classes that I was required to take, the latter of which I paid a guy with an 8-ball of blow to take my final exam in an auditorium of 300 students. Ended up with a final grade of C, which is pretty impressive considering what I was carrying going into the finals. But Ooooo, I guess "the school" is at fault for that, too, I'm sure they authorized the whole thing, knew about it, condoned it, all the way up to Bill Friday. Yeah, right...

[AugustWest]

So basically U*NC is a glorified cocktail party that any moron can get a degree from. Welp glad to know your administration is honest about something. Your university is a worthless sack of shit. Congrats on having the same useless piece of paper as an illiterate jock. Do you have a tutor type your post on here?

[Owlman]

For Documentation purposes only: Rankings by the US NEWS and World Report
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... ies/spp+50

30: University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill has a total undergraduate enrollment of 18,430, with a gender distribution of 41.8 percent male students and 58.2 percent female students. At this school, 46.0 percent of the students live in college-owned, -operated, or -affiliated housing and 54.0 percent of students live off campus.

106 North Carolina State University--Raleigh: North Carolina State University, known as NC State for short, is the largest four-year college in the state. Students have more than 100 degree programs and more than 400 clubs and organizations to choose from.

[AugustWest]

Yep and those rankings like everything else about U*NC are based on perception and lies. USNWR uses criteria like perception among high school guidance counselors, ratio of phd's to students, ave gpa of the student body, etc that have nothing to do with whether a student will actually learn anything while at the school. Dr. Nyan'oro was probably worth 10 points for U*NC in that USNWR ranking and he was running the largest academic fraud ring in history. Heck look at the blurb for U*NC in your post. It's about gender distribution and housing. State's is about the number of academic programs we offer and campus activities.