Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Dora]

Low wage earners spend their money. That is good for the economy & does generate more jobs.

[hedge]

I'd like to see your severed head supported by a pike...

[Toemeesleather]

Low wage earners spend their money. That is good for the economy & does generate more jobs.


Of course this is true, though minimal, IF they are spending money EARNED at a job that is creating wealth....too often nowadays, thru "earned income credit" and other transfer payments, they are simply using someone elses money (tax) to live and creating/maintaining a bureacracy instead of creating wealth(jobs).

[puterbac]

You miss the point.

1. The Tax cuts did little for the low income workers. As we've already established, these workers pay little income tax, they pay mostly payroll tax. The Bush tax cuts were designed to drastically cut the tax rates paid by the wealthy, and the success of Bush's plan is plainly visible in the chart Dora posted.

2. Such cuts directed at the wealthy do little to boost the economy because the wealthy people, who received the vast majority of the Tax savings, didn't spend the money. They invested it in China.

W cuts put fully in place and revenue grew each from 2003 to 2007 before real estate crash and millions fewer paying taxes in 2008.

You are making a logical mistake of assuming a cause and effect relationship. Revenues increased after the Bush Tax cuts in spite of the tax cuts not because of them. This is plainly shown by the 2 trillion dollar difference between the actual receipts and the numbers in the CBO estimate made before Bush's Cuts.

1. Millions of people were removed from the income tax rolls. I understand you want to give other peoples money away. We disagree on that.

2. Right. Because so many people are invested in the Chinese market. Wealthy people invest their money which helps create jobs which creates taxpayers which creates higher revenue.

The CBO estimate knew nothing of two wars or millions of job losses post 9/11. I'll have a post on CBO in a few that shows how awesome they are in projections. And remember that in Clintons early years they predicted 200 billion + yearly deficits for a decade and we ended up with surpluses. Once we had surpluses they predicted surpluses for decades and wiping out the national debt and we had deficits.

[puterbac]

tax revenue dropped in 2007, the economic crash was 2008

You are wrong.

Tax revenue increased in 2007 from 2006:

Income........Cap gains
2006 1,043,908 353,915
2007 1,163,472 370,243

Its taken right from Oprama's own data:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... st02z1.xls

[puterbac]

Such cuts directed at the wealthy do little to boost the economy because the wealthy people, who received the vast majority of the Tax savings, didn't spend the money. They invested it in China


LMAO.....and jobs are created by low skill poor folks.

No kidding.

[Dora]

Of course this is true, though minimal

No, it's not minimal, it's huge. There are millions & millions or low wage earners. If each of them just spends $1 more that means millions & millions going into the economy.

too often nowadays, thru "earned income credit" and other transfer payments, they are simply using someone elses money (tax) to live and creating/maintaining a bureacracy instead of creating wealth(jobs).

The vast majority of low income people are working people. But even those living on welfare are spending which is good for the economy & creates jobs. For instance, if I have a store where the majority of my customers are welfare recipients, an increased income for them translates into more $$ for my business. With enough of an increase, I will need to hire more help.

[puterbac]

Low wage earners spend their money. That is good for the economy & does generate more jobs.

Low wage folks by definition don't have a whole lot extra to spend.

Do you think middle class, rich, and wealthy people stuff money in their mattress?

Hell no. Of course they spend money and they invest that which they don't spend.

Whether its a car, furnishings, a house, electronics, home improvements, expanding a small business, investing in other biz, stock market, etc it is put to use. It isn't stuff in pillows at home.

[Dora]

Low wage folks by definition don't have a whole lot extra to spend.

Obviously. That's why letting them make more money benefits the economy.

Whether its a car, furnishings, a house, electronics, home improvements, expanding a small business, investing in other biz, stock market, etc it is put to use. It isn't stuff in pillows at home.

No, definitely not stuffed in pillows. It *will* however often go to non-taxed investments abroad.

[THE_WIZARD_]

[Hacksaw]

Hack, congrats to you and your little girl!

Thanks, Karen.

[Hacksaw]

Well, this conversation has taken an unfortunately predictable turn. We've got a bunch of people here with their heads in the sand, ignoring reality and continuing to support policies that are quickly accelerating us towards bankruptcy as a nation. And when you provide them with cold, hard evidence, they either ignore it or claim that it is faulty in some way. They are obviously hell-bent on believing what they want, reality be damned. Pretty sad.

"Raise taxes" is the only economic strategy the dem party has offered for the past 3 decades. And the funny thing is that most of us would be open to that, if both parties hadn't proved a long time ago that they have zero interest in cutting spending and budgeting responsibly. But they don't want that. They want their hand-outs. And like spoiled little children, they refuse to take no for an answer. So keep taxing, as long as it's somebody else who makes more than me. And keep giving us our free shit. And maybe I won't live long enough to see our country become a third-world nation because of it.

[innocentbystander]

Low wage folks by definition don't have a whole lot extra to spend.

Obviously. That's why letting them make more money benefits the economy.

Whether its a car, furnishings, a house, electronics, home improvements, expanding a small business, investing in other biz, stock market, etc it is put to use. It isn't stuff in pillows at home.

No, definitely not stuffed in pillows. It *will* however often go to non-taxed investments abroad.

Ours is the most modern economic system. There is not that much done with money that DOESN'T benefit the US economy.

• giving a 10 year old selling lemonade on the sideway 50 cents for a cup, benefits the economy
• just putting all your money in the bank, forcing the bank to loan most/almost-all of it out, benefits the economy
• buying a very affordable home and paying off your mortgage, benefits the economy
• sending yourself or your children off to be educated on YOUR dime (not government's) benefits the economy
• buying, holding, even selling a publically traded stock, benefits the economy
• hell, even buying gold and miserly hoarding it in your bedroom closet, in some small, odd ways, still benefits the economy

Ironically, buying cigarettes or alcohol benefits the economy in two ways: you prop up those who manufacture those things and you hasten your own early death thereby relieving government all those additional social security checks. Hoarding cash in can in your house doesn't benefit the economy, neither does using that money to buy illegal drugs or any other criminal activity (as you will be a "sink" when we are forced to incarcerate your ass.) There isn't that much benefit to the economy when you wager your earnings in a casino unless you think gaming industry work is worth-while.

What doesn't benefit our economy is government debt. Too many other nations are buying it up which means our grandchildren will have to work harder than we did to pay MORE income tax (as a percentage of their income) to cover the interest payments on the debt WE incurred TODAY to buy thing we thought we needed. We just do this because too many of our people are selfish and our children are too young to vote against us robbing them blind.

[puterbac]

Low wage folks by definition don't have a whole lot extra to spend.

Obviously. That's why letting them make more money benefits the economy.

Whether its a car, furnishings, a house, electronics, home improvements, expanding a small business, investing in other biz, stock market, etc it is put to use. It isn't stuff in pillows at home.

No, definitely not stuffed in pillows. It *will* however often go to non-taxed investments abroad.

1. What is this letting them make more money? Should govt determine all wages? If you said letting them KEEP more of what they earn, fine.

2. Who are these rich folks you know that are sending money overseas in non-taxed investments? Is there anything to back that up? Why did cap gains revenue go UP each year if they were in non-taxed investments?

[Hacksaw]

You conveniently believed what you chose to believe and voted for people who kept the scam going.

What??? YOU voted for Gore in 2000? That was the primary proposal of Gore in the election, to put SS in a lockbox and to truly and accurately reflect the budget (one of the biggest jokes on SNL was Gore repeating lockbox over and over)

Yeah, and Obama said he'd close down Gitmo and get us out of Iraq and govern in a bipartisan way and have the most transparent WH in history and televise the whole damned thing on C-SPAN, etc., etc., etc.

I didn't believe any of that shit, either.

[THE_WIZARD_]

I'm in favor of more stimulus. Everyone needs to patronize their nearest titty bar ASAP.

[innocentbystander]

I'm in favor of more stimulus. Everyone needs to patronize their nearest titty bar ASAP.

i prefer full nude

[Hacksaw]

"Ironically, buying cigarettes or alcohol benefits the economy in two ways: you prop up those who manufacture those things and you hasten your own early death thereby relieving government all those additional social security checks."

LMAO. The shit you read here, I tell ya'.

[Hacksaw]

" You have a tendency to present voluminous quantities of numbers with little useful analysis. Bottom line: your numbers don't serve your argument well because you offer no real analysis; in addition, your data is poorly organized and not clearly presented."

LMFAO!

Give it up, puter. AA was clearly right.

[Red Bird]

LMAO.....and jobs are created by low skill poor folks.

Jobs are created when people buy products off the store shelf.

The key to an modern industrial economy is consumer purchasing. If only the rich have money to buy things, there will be little demand because the rich are few in number.

Fewer people have money to spend = fewer products sold = fewer jobs.

More people with money to spend = more products sold = more jobs = more people with money to spend = more products sold = more jobs = more people with money to spend = . . . .

There isn't a businessman or women on earth dumb enough to invest in new production if people don't have the money to buy whatever his/her business makes.