Toronto Raptors - We can't be pathetic forever, can we?

[yossarian1234]

Myck Kabongo, anyone? With the PG depth being what it is on this team, something's seriously wrong if he at least doesn't get invited to summer league and get serious consideration for a roster spot. Especially now that we officially only have one PG on the roster and possibly in luxury tax territory barring amnesty.

[Bklyn]

You got rid of Bargs...shit.

[sotola]

yep... for a different, less talented big who can shoot, a grandfather (and guy who i can't stand watching), a protected first rounder in 3 years and 2 second rounders..... wish they had of at least sent us a case of beer and chips. never expected to get much for Bargnani but the salaries back are just as bad (multi year deals) and picks that won't amount to squat. at least it does make us worse next year. if he can deal Lowry for garbage and somehow offload Gay.... we should be able to contend with Philly and some others for the right to draft high next year. Lowry is an easy player to move.... but Gay is an albatross around the neck. If that trade hadn't been done, this team would be competing for a great player next summer but still have enough talent to matter once they got him. Bargs is SO not ready for NY.

[T Dot O Dot]

the bright lights & scrutiny in NY wont bother bargs, dude is completely oblivious

[Bklyn]

He won't be looked at much in NY. He's not expected to do much.

[sotola]

it should actually be interesting to see what happens to him in NY. I agree with both of ya.... no one expects anything.... and he seems indifferent to anything basketball related that he might actually get it.... doubt it, but possible. just hope they release Camby. he is reminiscent of one of the best trades we ever made... when we sent him packing to NY for Oakley.

[yossarian1234]

Finally. And they actually got some value back for Bargnani. Break Bargnani's contract into littler pieces and get the draft picks, which are crucial to a team like us who can't get shit in FA. Had we had a pick of our own or a pick to trade in this draft, things would've been a lot more interesting for us in terms of trades/draft since Ujiri seemingly wanted to get into the draft so much.

Doubt Marcus Camby ever plays here, his second year is only guaranteed for $1M and Novak's salary, while a year longer, should be easy enough to move. A role player that actually plays his role on a reasonable contract. Had to sign Richardson to 3-year deal but only one of it is guarateed. Shuld be able to shed at least a big chunk of the salary within a year. This doesn't really point the team's direction either way since Bargnani contributed absolutely nothing and was actually an addition by subtraction cause they had to forcefeed him minutes he didn't deserve so Novak actually might present an improvement. They need to start dealing the core. Two of Lowry/DeRozan/Gay.

Just hope they realize, if they retool and fail, they'll have no playoffs AND no decent draft pick to show for their effort. And I don't know how they make meaningful strides long-term even if they make the playoffs with a 34-win team that's dangerously close to luxury tax. Valanciunas, in the meantime, hits his peak and it's Bosh situation all over again. Then it'll be no different than Colangelo era. They tank, they at least have a very nice pick in what many predict will be comparable to 2003 draft to build along with Jonas Valanciunas.

As for Bargnani in NY, couldn't care less. He can rot on their bench then go back to Italy for all I care.

[T Dot O Dot]

I doubt Camby or Q-Rich will ever see the court, they were just filler to make this work, Q-Rich just made an extra 2 million in order to make this transaction viable under the CBA

The Knicks have also agreed to pay Q-Rich's salary which seriously makes me question their motivation behind this deal, ESPN is writing that this move is a response to Brooklyn acquiring Pierce/KG, that is just unbelievable

The 1st rounder was part of the Melo deal which Denver holds the right to switch with NYK in 2016, so unless both teams suck were most likely looking at a pick in 20-25 range, so they didnt give up too much.....

I still do not get why they did this

[sotola]

re - I still do not get why they did this

the raps or the knicks? the knicks gave up nothing. the raps gave up a "potentially" offensively talented player. the salary figures are comparable... as is the duration. neither side "won" the deal. if you hate Bargnani, you think we won. this deal was about getting rid of a guy that Colangelo wouldn't. this is one of those political moves

a first round pick and 2 second round picks in future years (that are protected)???? the deal is nothing ... but i like it only because Camby, Novak, and now Q Rich don't make the team better than a healthy Bargnani. i am ok with that

[T Dot O Dot]

Don't get why the knicks did it, unless to consolidate salary into one single contract, bargs can be moved as early as July 11th and there are already rumours he's going to the clippers

[sotola]

i thought you had to be with a team for 3 months before being traded again (unless the transaction is relatively instantaneous)? I guess that because the trade doesn't become official until July 10th, the 11th is possible since it's almost instantaneous..... but if they don't trade him right away, doesn't he have to stick with the team for 3 months

[T Dot O Dot]

I am not 100% sure and I'm not in a position to look it up right now (posting from my phone) but the fact that he wasn't moved along with other players and that it wasnt a sign & trade (which means no moves til december) he can be traded right away

additionally, the league is in moratorium, the deal as it stands is only a verbal agreement, it cant really be reneged but i'm sure it could be restructured into a 3-way deal if all parties agree

[sotola]

just found this reference from a very thorough site on the CBA.....the Knicks can only trade him if it happens at the same time as the deal with the Raps. Who knows? if the Knicks get close to trading Bargs, but need more time, we might be able to extract more out of them for waiting (like lowering some of the protection on the picks)

"In addition, teams cannot trade players under the following circumstances:

•For two months after receiving the player in trade, if the trade aggregates the player's salary with the salaries of other players. However, the team is free to trade the player immediately, either by himself or without aggregating his salary with other salaries. This restriction applies only to teams over the salary cap. (Also see question number 86.)"

[T Dot O Dot]

you just confirmed what i just posted dude

[sotola]

yes and no... i just couldn't remember the exact conditions which allowed for a traded player to be moved. your original post said "as early as July 11th".... but the source i quoted states it will have to happen immediately or he won't be able to be moved for a couple of months... so whenever the Knicks/Raps complete the original trade has to coincide with moving him elsewhere. so the Knicks will have a short window to move him UNLESS they give the Raps something more to wait around. but if they complete the trade and they haven't found a home for Bargs, they won't be able to move him for 2 months.

[Owlman]

If the Knicks make a trade to the Clippers to go through on July 11th, wouldn't that be at the same time?

[sotola]

that's why I said yes and no.... if they have something lined up for when the moratorium ends, absolutely. If they don't, but the Raps want to complete the deal, they won't be able to move him for 2 months. I have to wonder how great a deal the Clips must be if they didn't want to deal with Toronto directly. it's not like we made a killing against NY. 3 protected long term picks and less talent than we gave up.... the Clips would have been able to provide that.

[T Dot O Dot]

my interpretation is that because Bargs was the sole moving piece going to NYK (not combined with other Raptor or Non-NYK players) & that it wasn't a sign & trade, he's movable once the moratorium is complete

the same would not apply to what we received (Camby, Novak, Q-Rich) as they are aggregates

[T Dot O Dot]

whatever, I'm beginning to think agents force the league to build silly loopholes into the rules beforehand whereas clever agents/GMs would figure these things out as things go along

like Q-Rich is a sign & trade, so the deal has to be a minimum of 3 years.... but only the first year is guaranteed

everytime you cover up one loophole 2 more are created

Bargz is gone, I'm good

[sotola]

re - my interpretation is that because Bargs was the sole moving piece going to NYK (not combined with other Raptor or Non-NYK players) & that it wasn't a sign & trade, he's movable once the moratorium is complete

except he was combined with players... it took multiple players on the NY side to make the cap rules apply. so, he becomes aggregated. If it had been one for one, you would have been 100% correct.

but i agree that the lawyers and agents put the wording together to make sure it's impossible not to find a loophole