Toronto Raptors - We can't be pathetic forever, can we?

[T Dot O Dot]

Toronto Sun reporting that Colangelo will get the axe tomorrow

[Bklyn]

Well, there ends that one. My post is not needed.

[yossarian1234]

Hmm... so they are still looking for a new GM to directly report to the new CEO but retains Colangelo to work on "corporate" side... as president of Raptors still... WTF?

Smells very fishy to me. I don't know how a new GM comes in and not look over his shoulder at Colangelo and how he wouldn't still have influence over basketball decisions. Unless... this is a temporary arrangement to give time for Colangelo to look for other opportunities and exit the team with more grace. I don't think Colangelo needs it but maybe they felt he did enough to warrant it. I'll reserve judgement for now... but will jump ship depending on how things pan out until Colangelo is no longer part of the team.

To me, these decisions also make me pessimistic about the new CEO as well.

Fair to say, Phil Jackson is probably out at this point. Names like Ujiri and Pritchard being thrown around right now.

[T Dot O Dot]

100% agree with Yoss

this is silly, anyone who thinks BC will just become a corporate suit & not meddle in basketball affairs is crazy, and what incoming GM wants any of that?

Tim Lieweke has lost me already, with his very first move being a half measure... weak sauce

this franchise is doomed for failure, fuck the raptors for coming to toronto

it's so silly that papers are publishing conspiracies for how it's possible for this guy to still be our president, but still have no say in basketball decisions

it's obvious MLSE is filled with politricks, the Post has a story that Jerry Colangelo offered up the 2016 all-star game to Lieweke in exchange for not firing his son

complete & utter shytshow

[sotola]

for once we are probably all in agreement. This is a design destined for failure UNLESS there are items none of us understand.... which is probably the case. APPARENTLY, this was an OPTION that the Raptors extended.... but any lawyer will tell you that the "devils in the details".

My GUESS.... Colangelo's contract called for a buyout of his contract which EXCEEDED his value of a president. That is, they probably had a contract written that stated he would get paid 8M to be GM, and and additional 2M as president. But it probably never specificed that the extension had to be for both parts..... and his buyout probably exceeded his president's salary. It's just a guess because it's clear this situation won't work.... but most organizations would never go for this type of set up that they probably found a loophole that made it fiscally responsible WITHOUT being tied to bad decisions..... similar to what happened with Burke. It's cheaper for the coach/gm to leave on their own rather than paying the buyout.

It's dirty frankly.... but the lawyers at MLSE were not dumb. i don't suspect that Lieweke believe BC will stick around..... and probably why he referenced that BC would be angry.... but I don't suspect BC is angry because he gets to keep his president's job but rather because he got screwed out of a buyout.... any senior exec agreement in this industry has a severance amount even if they don't extend him. Lieweke found a cheap cost alternative

[yossarian1234]

So we get Masai Ujiri...

I'm not sure what to think. He's done well at Denver...but he's gonna be coming into replace his old boss...with his old boss still here.

I think this all but ensures Colangelo has some kind of influence over basketball decisions, I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to get someone totally new to the situation that would be able to tell Colangelo to fuck off if he tried to interfere. I don't know if Ujiri could do that. And I get the feeling he would more likely stay the course with Gay and co. than break the whole thing up, which was unlikely as it were. Could also mean Casey doesn't get the deserved axe... Also would like that long-time scout Jim Kelly gone, don't know how he survived through all the draft disasters and such, but that also now looks less likely.

Situation looks worse and worse but we'll see.

[Bklyn]

If there is any bright spot, it's that Ujiri is widely considered to be one of the best young execs out there...if not the best. This will see if it's a fluke, or not. They're paying him enough cash to empower him to say "fuck off" to anyone getting in the way of his success and reputation. I think you've made the best move there, at this point.

[T Dot O Dot]

I'd say the job he did in Denver stands on its own, if he fails here then he just joins the line of executives who crashed & burned in Toronto

from what I gather the hiring process breaks down like this

1) he made 500K in Denver, the raps offered 3 years at 2.5m per & he still didnt bite

2) he went back to Denver with our offer & they low-balled him at 1.2m per.... still not biting

3) raps increase the offer to 5 years, 3m per

4) raps also agree to support Ujiri's personal foundations in Africa

So, we start off with a 500% salary increase and after Denver gives him no leverage with their counter-offer, we still upped the years, the per annum and promised some $$ for his charities as gravy..... and he still needed a week to think about it

That says it all to me

he probably told Lieweke to kick rocks with that 3 year BS, this franchise is so broken he'll need a minimum 5 years to right the ship

back to the original point, he'd have to crash & burn in spectacular fashion in order for me to consider his Denver job a fluke... I just think there are top shelf GM's who could come here & still fail

the one good thing is the 5 years leaves him the option to go nuclear, blow up the roster & tank for Wiggins/Parker/Randle, 3 years would have forced him to retool

I'm not saying its best to blow it up, but if that's what he has in mind he at least has the time to get it done

[yossarian1234]

I see a chance to draft Wiggins too big of an opportunity to miss so blow it up.

Having said that, judging by how this team operated in the past, I'd say retool is most likely. Rumors of Casey staying around has already started and that's just the beginning IMO. At least he won't have any rookies to blame this time around, thanks to Colangelo.

Hopefully the management's desire to make this Canada's team wins over when they look at Wiggins.

As for Ujiri, unless he does a heck of a job, I can easily see another Colangelo-like scenario if he starts off with retool. Give fans false hope with quick playoffs then slowly fizzle out throughout his time here. Maybe sign an extension based on early hope prolonging the agony. That's how much hope I have for the current core. I can see how Valanciunas could be a big part of winning formula but that'll only happen if you pair him with right players and Wiggins would be a heck of a start. Otherwise you have another Bosh situation on your hand.

[sotola]

Wiggins is a pipe dream... tell me what trades could be made that bring substantially worse talent back immediately that doesn't cripple you financially, or in terms of talent?

You want to, at least, have guys that MIGHT be good in a few years. You want to have the potential upside, but you don't want the immediate production because Wiggins is in next year's draft class. You would have to be bad from day one in October.....and we aren't THAT bad with the current line up.

so realistically, you can only take on the worst contracts to rid yourself of your current talent (Gay, DeRozan, and to a lesser extent Lowry). Lowry would be an easy trade to get worse quickly because we wouldn't have any PG that is worthy of full time status..... trading him would hurt the team out of the gates. But how do you sell that in this town without getting slapped by the NBA? Toronto fans could absorb hearing "we traded him for peanuts to make us bad enough to get Wiggins" but the NBA wouldn't go for it.

Gay - you would have to take on the worst contracts in the league and get nothing valuable in return which makes the concept of trading him almost impossible. Who is gonna give up any serious talent to pay him 20M a season? BC was desperate and Memphis loved that he was. They got something for a part that didn't fit. Half the teams in the league can't afford Gay.... and most of the one's that can, don't need him.

the only possible scenario that I could see is committing to Gay for 2 seasons (and staying the course), getting rid of DeRozan/Lowry before camp, and sticking with Bargnani for ALL of next season. Gay and Bargs couldn't play together and without a PG, there might be a SLIGHT chance of being that bad.... but i still couldn't see it happening in less than a year.

as for the signing itself, i am OK with it. I can't think of any trade of an all star that netted a team as much as the trade made in Denver. and he didn't panic throughout it all.... that says alot. i was always worried about BC's desperation moves.

[sotola]

as an example.... when BC was still around, they mentioned that they might have to add Val in a trade to rid themselves of Bargnani..... if that's the kind of trade you want to make; no thanks. Wiggins will need guys to play with him when he arrives and Val is a perfect fit for a guy like that. Val won't demand the ball, he will rebound and set aggressive picks and role to the rim.... and he won't need the notoriety.

getting rid of Bargnani, at the expense of Val.... dumb. Val won't make us a playoff team next year but adding him in a deal to make us bad enough to hope we win the lottery..... dumb.

Val and Ross should be untouchable because they aren't all stars right now but they COULD be. you need to have guys to grow with Wiggins if that is the approach. and you want enough financial flexibility to add veteran talent around Wiggins once he's here. I can't see any team wanting Gay without making us take on a ton of salary. Lowry is probably the only option and trading your only PG is not something I could see being accepted by the league.

[T Dot O Dot]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 5m
First order of biz for new Raps GM Masai Ujiri: Word is he'll shop Andrea Bargnani everywhere he can in hopes of moving him before July 1

[yossarian1234]

Good luck to Ujiri trying to get rid of Bargnani. I hope he has the guts to amnesty him if there are no takers.

As for Sotola's post, a lot of weirdness. A lot of points are already addressed so I feel no need to rehash it but one thing that came out of nowhere, why the heck would NBA step in and block a trade? Is there an actual live example of this? Where do you even come up with this stuff? And Ross...a possible All-Star.... HA!

[yossarian1234]

Another thing, a lot of teams have tanked before and NBA has never "frowned upon" or taken any active action against it so why the fuck would they start now?

NBA wouldn't go for it? BAH!

[T Dot O Dot]

a Raptor tank would fly right below the NBA radar, its not as is the league would be all up in arms if we went 24-58

and I dont want to tank for Wiggins, I want to tank for Wiggins/Parker/Randle, obviously Wiggins is the prize but the other two are well worth it

only play guys who are 100%, rest injuries longer, sit players on the front & back end of back to backs and give mandatory minutes to Val, Ross & Acy

another dream would be to trade Bargnani for a 1st rounder this year & get that Dennis Schroeder kid from Germany to be our backup point guard & eventual starter

kid has a crazy first step & glides past screens when playing on the ball defense

[yossarian1234]

Agreed. The team won 34 games last year, it's going to take hard work, which is why Ujiri got 600% pay increase, but it's certainly far from impossible for this team to tank and be right in there for race to the worst record in the league. Doing the things TDot has pointed out, which they failed to do in preparation for 2012 draft, would be a good start and yeah, don't let Dleague scrubs get in your way by allowing you to win those meaningless late season games.

NBA must also realize someone like Wiggins would be HUGE in Canada. Obviously the other guys aren't too bad either, which gives all the more reason to tank and build with Valanciunas and 2014 draft pick.

If Ujiri somehow gets a first rounder this year for Bargnani, then he would deserve all the props. Now THAT would be almost impossible.

[T Dot O Dot]

I don't get why getting a first rounder would be so hard, a solid team that spreads the floor could use bargnani and I'm not even thinking high lottery, just low teens

The talking heads all consider this a weak draft and have ridiculed the gilberts for celebrating WAY too hard for a winning a lottery with no franchise changing talent

[T Dot O Dot]

If houston were to land dwight, I think bargz would be a great complimentary 4.

One more item about tanking, there are rumblings out of cleveland that kyrie irving spent weeks on injured reserve when he was ready to play, I doubt there will be any backlash

[yossarian1234]

Teams know Bargnani's almost worthless in Toronto now so they'd be hesitatnt to give up anything of value for him and he's got a sizeable contract to boot, which I'd think teams would be hesitant to go for.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2 ... house.html

Jim Kelly finally let go along with Ed Stefanski. So it begins.

[T Dot O Dot]

now embry and BC need to go and I'll be satisfied that masai will be 100% in charge