Prof Tiger & Sardis "All Things Considered" Theology Hut

[hedge]

And I love how you try to trot out your tortured, jesuitiacal, sophistry and think you're so clever and "rational" with your little geometrical propositions and "proofs" and "if A, then B, but if not A, then how can it be not B???? Huh??? HUH?????" You're a child, and not a very bright one...

[sardis]

I dont need fairy tales & made-up stories to point my moral compass in the right direction

the problem is... a shyt load of other people do

Well,then what does point your moral compass in the right direction....and what makes it right?

[Dr. Strangelove]

Prof-

Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. didn't kill millions in the name of atheism. That long quote from Lenin you posted doesn't even imply anywhere that Lenin primarily did the things he did because he hated the concept of God and wanted to destroy all religious thought.

In the first place, by that reasoning:
1. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pot were avowed atheists, communists, and as such detested private property, free speech, political opposition, free press, judicial due process, etc.
2. When in power, they wound up killing and severely oppressing their people by confiscating all private property, silencing free speech, wiping out all political opposition, eliminating all free press, ending due process, etc.
3. You would (or at least I think you would) agree that #1 above led to #2 above. I think you would also say that #2 was very evil.

But somehow, you also say that:
1. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pot were avowed atheists, communists, and as such detested all religion.
2. When in power, they wound up killing millions for simply practicing religion and severely oppressed any practice of religion.
3. But somehow, unlike the first case, you aren't willing to admit that #1 led to #2. I can see why if you're an atheist. It must be terribly embarrassing to have Lenin, Stalin and Mao and Pot as your non-godfathers.

Could you please explain how it is a common belief of all atheists that free speech, free press, and the judicial system all be eliminated? Or that atheists believe that religion and religious people ought to be destroyed?

Lenin, Stalin, and Mao did the things they did because they were authoritarian dictators. Not because they didn't believe in God.

Also, the Russian Orthodox Church of the Tsar's day did not believe in freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or democracy any more than the Communists did. They believed in a one-religion state, having the Divine Rule of Kings violently enforced, and all dissent crushed under foot. They spread Tsarist propaganda and were an active arm of the Tsarist State. Which is why Lenin sought out to destroy them.

I'm sure you are aware that long before the rise of the Nazis, the Russians were carrying out mass murder of Jews all throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. This was done all with the beaming approval of the Tsar and the Church.

[sardis]

Conversely, you can't blame Christianity on atrocities committed by men who cover themselves in a robe of false Christianity.

[T Dot O Dot]

Christopher Hitchens' true fate : his carbon atoms are being recycled into the universe, period.

[T Dot O Dot]

some of them might end up in a tree that grows a hundred years from now, reincarnation!

your best bet is to let your DNA transmit to the next generation, multiple times.. and if Darwin had a say in it... with multiple partners

everything else is BS

[T Dot O Dot]

let me drop some drunken science, does this look familiar? :



an atomic nucleus with orbiting electrons bound by electromagnetic force

not exactly the same, but kind of like the gravitational force that creates orbit systems in our solar system

the atom, the basic unit of matter as we know it

now scientists have found subatomic particles

what does that mean?

There are worlds within worlds baby!

somewhere in a super-verse, in which we are just a speck, some green eyed supergoblin baby is blowing a soap bubble, and the history of our earth & humankind as we know it (relative to the green-eyed supergoblin baby) has transpired from beginning to end in the moment it's breath caused our bubble genesis to the second later where that soapy bubble had it's apocalyptic pop




and that's all she wrote

<edit> to be more correct the baby goblin would have to split an atom, but whatev, my fairy tale is just as good as yours

[T Dot O Dot]

not to minimize our importance, but everytime an atom in our existence destabliizes, breaks or creates an ionic bond, etc.

what's to say someone else's world doesnt get rocked?

we discovered micro-organisms in the 1600's

We are BRAND NEW

[T Dot O Dot]

I dont need fairy tales & made-up stories to point my moral compass in the right direction

the problem is... a shyt load of other people do

Well,then what does point your moral compass in the right direction....and what makes it right?

responsible parenting

[T Dot O Dot]

I dont need fairy tales & made-up stories to point my moral compass in the right direction

the problem is... a shyt load of other people do

Well,then what does point your moral compass in the right direction....and what makes it right?

every now & then , I do run into a dude who is on Empty... and in my mind I honestly say:

"this dude needs <Jesus, or insert whatever godly figure here> in his life"

if the fairy tale gets it done... so be it

[Johnette's Daddy]

There seems to be very little theology being discussed here.

No discussion of transubstantiation, no comparisons of the story of Esther to Ishtar, etc.

[T Dot O Dot]

so I guess the stuff I made up last night when I was gettin ripped off of the Old Gold doesnt count?

[Johnette's Daddy]

so I guess the stuff I made up last night when I was gettin ripped off of the Old Gold doesnt count?

You were discussing faith formation (or lack thereof).

[Jungle Rat]

Jesus doesn't love me. He was Black anyway. A black Jew. Heh

[Johnette's Daddy]

What if the next Pope is Black?

Oddsmakers have Peter Cardinal Turkson, from Ghana, as a 5-2 favorite. http://www.lbnelert.com/

Meanwhile, oddsmakers are banking on the pope being from the developing world, with Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana currently coming in at 5-2 odds. Archbishop Angelo Scola from Italy has 7-2 odds, and Canadian Cardinal Marc Ouellet is currently standing at 5-1.

My guess is that there'll be another schism and either a formal split between between the European and Latin American Church (in which countries Blacks are still largely portrayed as sub-human) or a dual papacy where certain Bishops renounce the Black Pope's legitimacy and crown their own.

[aTm]

I have gained this by philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law.
— Aristotle, philosopher (384-322 BCE)

[Jungle Rat]

Does anyone actually care about who the next pope is anyway? Did anyone care the last time? Who gives a shit about who the next pope is?

[aTm]

My favorite group who care are the "Prophecy of the Popes" believers.

[Professor Tiger]

hedge, let the hate go. Just let it go. It's not good for you.

Conversely, you can't blame Christianity on atrocities committed by men who cover themselves in a robe of false Christianity.

Correct. You summarized my whole point in the first place. If Hitchens and hedge sweepingly blame Christianity (and/or religion in general) for crimes committed by Christians, then it is completely appropriate for others to blame atheists for crimes committed by recent atheists like Stalin, Mao and Pot. (I should also add the Kim's).

Apparently hedge doesn't see it that way.

Let the record reflect that I don't blame all atheism for the crimes committed by Stalin, Mao etc. I merely ask that Hitchens and hedge return the courtesy, as most of the other atheists around here do.

[innocentbystander]

As I'm sure you know, the term "fundamentalist" came from the early 20th century to describe Protestants who reacted against evolution, other scientific discoveries, and higher critical studies of the Bible. It distinguished them from those Protestants who more or less accepted evolution, other scientific discoveries, and higher critical studies of the Bible. Fundamentalists then and now highly emphasize things Iike the inerrancy of the Bible, the Virgin birth/miracles/atoning death/resurrection/second coming of Jesus. Today, the term "fundamentalist" would tend to include most Baptists, Bible Churchers, Pentecostals. It would tend not to include most Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.

The term "fundamentalist" is close to the term "evangelical." I agree with whoever once said that a fundamentalist is an evangelical who is angry. Other than that, I seldom used the term "fundamentalist" as a barb. It is just a handy term.

okay