Toronto Raptors - We can't be pathetic forever, can we?

[sotola]

I hope we move Bargnani & Allan Anderson

agree on Bargnani but why would you want to move a $1M journeyman? That's a great insurance policy on injuries. He has proven effective and it costs you nothing.

the only way I want to see Anderson moved is if he is actually the attractive element to a team to take on a guy like Bargnani. Otherwise, unless we are actually winning the talent of a trade, I would absolutely keep Anderson simply because he has a 2 yr/2M contract and is effective when called upon.... those types of players are rare.

[T Dot O Dot]

he's the odd man out in the Gay deal

Ross needs minutes & Fields will get minutes due to his contract

once Rudy settles and starts getting his regular minutes I dont want to see Anderson & Ross sharing time, plus he has a habit of playing hero ball which is now Rudy's territory

in a perfect world Landry would be the one to go but no one is taking him at that price tag

[sotola]

I agree that I don't want Anderson taking minutes from Ross but I don't agree that Fields will get more of an opportunity due to his contract. Coaches know they ultimately get paid to win and if Fields can't help in that regard.... Casey won't risk it. Unless this team wins, BC is most likely the next to go..... BC has already had like 5 (just a guess) coaches in his tenure that I don't see the new ownership group giving him another opportunity to fire another one. He is on his last straw. I think Casey will start to make some decisions that he wouldn't have made in prior years like sitting Bargs for longer stretches when he seems disinterested and playing guys he wants more than what his boss would have wanted. Just a guess on my part but the bball climate in TO seems pretty clear as far as BC's status imo.

I am more concerned with Ross losing minutes overall due to this deal. Ross is an amazing athletic talent but his basketball IQ is extremely low. He needs to have as many opportunities to learn as possible. I fear that he will start to get the quick hook with Gay around. (since Casey will probably clearly have a win now attitude).

[T Dot O Dot]

Ross is an amazing athletic talent but his basketball IQ is extremely low.

really? i think his defensive rotations are spot on, dude has great instincts

my biggest beef with him is shot selection with respect to the shotclock, i hate the early pull up jumpshots.. even when they fall

[T Dot O Dot]

my other beef is the double team the post rule that every coach we've ever had seems to institute

we keep getting burnt & i dont get it

against Atlanta we double teamed off of Korver on a critical possession when Horford never really had a high percentage chance of scoring

against golden state we doubled Andrew Bogut (on his 1st game back from injury) & our defender forced him a fair distance off the block, he wasnt a threat there, we doubled and they rotated the ball to Thompson for a wide open triple

I really hate that shyt, why do we have globally defined defensive schemes that do not address time & situation?

[sotola]

re:

really? i think his defensive rotations are spot on, dude has great instincts

my biggest beef with him is shot selection with respect to the shotclock, i hate the early pull up jumpshots.. even when they fall[/quote]


His defense is adequate off the ball but he makes a lot of dumb decisions. Last night, he twice turned his head on the ball and Bosh ended out getting a wide open dunk on one and still was able to drive the lane on the 2nd. It was bad enough it happened once, but it actually happened twice within a minute or two of one another.

He is a VERY good on the ball defender but has a tendency to leave his feet too much (like almost all young, athletic players). that part will ultimately be corrected easily. And I do agree with you on his shot selection. He likes to heave shots too much and doesn't attack the basket enough.

He is a typical rookie which is why I want to see him get alot more minutes, not less. He needs to learn. The skill set is there... it just needs some minutes.

[sotola]

and that 2nd mistake on Bosh led to another quick hook.

[yossarian1234]

Is Valanciunas still hurt or is Casey getting so desperate to win now that he's lost sight of long term development? Sure looks like it from the way he's overplaying Anderson and sitting Ross.

[sotola]

don't know if V is hurt but what is unfolding is exactly what I thought was going to happen.... a power struggle where Casey knows BC's next, and last, move is firing the coach. I don't think BC will get another chance to fire Casey but I suspect Casey knows his job is on the line to protect Brian's. Ross should be seeing more minutes but clearly the bench has been shortened and it doesn't include him unless he is putting up points.

and after 3 games, Gay has played well and the team has looked horrible despite playing hard. It looks like I am watching schoolyard ball in every offensive set.... hopefully it changes because I haven't enjoyed watching them play this last week.

[yossarian1234]

Does playing Gray over Valanciunas and playing Anderson over Ross really make that big of a difference between us winning and losing? Casey has received his share of criticism from fans this season and I'm starting to think a lot of them are deserved.

[sotola]

I don't. V needs to be brought along more slowly due to his position. Ross, on the other hand, has the physical ability to compete with anyone, NOW. He lacks the iq necessary to survive at his position. I do agree that neither change makes a huge difference but one is more justifiable to the board of the raps than the other. This is about basketball politics and is the reason I said Bc should be fired if they were not committed to him. They are not and Casey knows it. If they allow a boozer trade,and then fire Bc, I won't support this org again. I am already on that ledge without another dumb trade that delays true improvement.

With that said, Paul George is the most underrated player in the league.....love the guy!

[yossarian1234]

Although I don't think it should've ever come to that point if they did things right last year, Rudy Gay I could still understand under the circmstances but not Boozer. No way.

As for Valanciunas, big men do take more time to develop but Gray? Come on. And Ross ain't getting any younger. 22 already. (did he get held back a grade or two at high school?) At least Indiana game was much better.

[T Dot O Dot]

14 points, 13 boards & 2 blocks in 26 minutes for Val last night

in all fairness, Gray only played 13 minutes last night so he was only the starter in name.

That said, 26 minutes is light work considering the game went into OT

There is nothing to be gained playing Anderson over Ross or Gray over Val so I find it hard to believe that Casey is benching the rookies as part of GM/Coach power struggle

Additionally, Alan Anderson is a usage player, not a glue guy and it's painfully obvious. His best contribution to the roster is that when the injuries come pouring down you can play him big minutes & he'll produce. Dude is not a role player though, at 12-15 minutes per game he brings nothing to the table but awkwardness & confusion.

[T Dot O Dot]

Bargnani remaining salary & contract :

12/13 - 10 mil
13/14 - 11 mil
14/15 - 12 mil

Boozer remaining salary & contract :

12/13 - 15 mil
13/14 - 15.3 mil
14/15 - 16.8 mil

They expire the same date, one of them is clearly superior and gets paid accordingly

I'm okay with it, and Rose is coming back, maybe we can swap Lucas III for Marquis Teague as Thibodeau is clearly high on Nate Robinson for the job he's done while Rose has been out

[yossarian1234]

Yes, Boozer is superior to Bargnani but doesn't mean he's not overpaid. And he doesn't perform in big games and has been riddled with nagging injuries that caused him to miss so many games.

Why do you think Bulls are seriously considering amnestying him?

I'd only maybe consider if they took Fields.

[T Dot O Dot]

taking fields will not address chicago's need to shed salary

and yeah, Boozer will disappear in game 6 of the conference finals or maybe a game 7 of the 2nd round

both of which are big stages that this team can't even fathom competing in, there are no big games in our upcoming future Yoss

if we can flip Lucas for Teague we win in the long run

overpaying the Gay's & Boozer's of the NBA is not hard to live with, overpaying the Landry Fields' of the NBA is a pill much harder to swallow, let's gain some respectability & think about playing .500 + basketball for now while developing Ross & Val

we've made our bed, let OKC have our draft pick this year and go from there

with Boozer & Gay we'll be a 5-8 playoff team in 13/14, we'll make some noise & have Fields, Boozer and Gay as expiring deals going into 14/15

[T Dot O Dot]

other than that I would like to see us make a move for a Luke Ridnour type backup PG, someone strong enough to command the 2nd unit but won't demand a high price tag or start a PG controversy with Lowery

[sotola]

I don't disagree with most of your comments but....

"There is nothing to be gained playing Anderson over Ross or Gray over Val so I find it hard to believe that Casey is benching the rookies as part of GM/Coach power struggle"

This comment... is absolutely correct for the average basketball fan BUT, in a power struggle, it becomes "he wants me to play guys that need to be brought along slower vs. guys that have proven themselves over a career". I don't disagree with you dot. It just is a situation that is "what it is". Casey vs. BC. If Casey doesn't fight, he loses. but he's bright enough to realize that it is his time to fight NOW.... even if the logic isn't 100%. It's a way of saying " he hasn't given me enough to compete"

I like Casey and don't think BC has done a bad job but I personally would rather have Casey before another short term trade like Bargs for Boozer.... because I can guarantee the additional salary to a Bargs trade for Boozer is Amir..... and I do NOT want that happening. Amir isn't worth Boozer imo.

[yossarian1234]

This team's dumb as hell. Only thing that saved it is Lucas's timely hot shooting. And yeah, Rudy Gay's winning shot.

[sotola]

This team's dumb as hell.

Yep, writers can put spins on anything. "The Raptors are 4-2 since acquiring Gay"..... except the Clippers didn't show up to play and had lost 6 of 7; the Pacers (and specifically David West) handed a critical turnover in a game that should have been over and we only required John Lucas to hit a combined 10 3 pointers in the 4th quarter in back to back games.

and oh yeah, 2 game winning shots.

You can only play with fire so long before you get burned. This trade made the team different.... not better.