Tennessee Volunteers

[Big Orange Junky]

Guess POS scumbag has now proven that he can't coach a lick.

He underachieved here at Tennessee and has overwhelmingly underachieved at USC.

He's all talk.

I'm just glad he's gone, the only thing he is good at is running his mouth and destroying programs.

[innocentbystander]

This is the only time I can remember ever pulling for Notre Dame.

You and me both.

[GBJs]

Y'all hate Georgia that bad?

[innocentbystander]

Y'all hate Georgia that bad?

Georgia doesn't care. Only Florida cared about USC vs Notre Dame.

If Georgia takes care of business vs Alabama, they play in the MNC.

[10ac]

non sequitur

[bluetick]

BOJ, give it up. Whatever you think you know from listening to The Zone! - I promise - you don't know dick. In fact, it makes you dumber.

LMBO. I guess The Zone made up the linda bensel myers crap as well as Cheek refusing to pay coaches in the past due to "concerns with having to explain the high salary to tenured professors".

I didn't get any of that from the Zone. Part of it is from Volquest, part is from the KNS. Lots of smoke about problems with the english department, and I distinctly remember the bullcrap of LBM.

I also saw the quotes from Cheek saying he had "no plans" etc etc.

Of course I don't "know jack". I only know what is reported but these are reputable reporters that are reporting that lots of the problem with finding a coach is directly due to the meddling of the english department.

Genius, Bensel-Myers was 12 years ago - she made some unfounded charges about doctored grades and she was sent packing to Denver. She had zero effect on the football program. That's your indictment of the 'english dept'? LMAO

And "Cheek refused to pay coaches"? WHAT coaches? Cheek has only been on the job 20 months...hello?? You seriously think our well-documented failings with Fulmer (and the Fulmer Cup), Randy Sanders, Dave Clawson, the Kiffins, the Dooley desperation, the mountain of buy-out money.....wait a sec...are you confusing Cheek with Radar? OMG, that must be it..

[Orangefreak]

And Kiffin loses. Again. It will be so sweet if he loses his job.

[Big Orange Junky]

No I am not and I wasn't blaming anything about Fulmer on Cheek.

What I am saying is that the culture changed since Bensel-Myers, when we lost control of the Thorton Center and it became against the rules for a coach to even ask about how well a player was doing in class. It has gotten worse and worse over the years and hit it's apex under Cheek, who hamstrung Dooley at every opportunity in his quest to be a "top 20 research institution", but it started before Cheek.

That's why we had to get down to Dooley in the first place, because athletics has to answer to the english department and they were getting their paybacks.

I think it's absurd that it's easier to get a player into Vandy than UT. I thought they were saying except Vandy but that is not the case. The system we had before of the AD getting to pull rank and say "you can let this guy in" on borderline recruits is now gone so those borderline students that all things point to them being able to make it can't get into UT. They can get into Vandy though. That's why Franklin "won" some of the instate recruiting battles per these reporters. They said that Dickey would only go to bat for about 10% or less that he was asked by the coaching staff and that they were successful. Now that system is gone, it isn't allowed to happen any more (happened during Radars reign but not sure if it was before or after Cheek).

How stupid is it that a coach can't even ask how a kid is doing in class? That's the only university I know that has that policy. Cheek says it is to "keep professors from feeling pressured", which is BS. It's so they can fail the kid before the coaches know anything about it.

Heck even when I tutored athletes the coach would just walk in unannounced to make sure they were there at the study session doing what they are supposed to do.

Not allowed at UT any more.

[bluetick]

Cheek 'hamstrung' Dooley?? Harder to get into Vandy than UT?? Don't want pressure from professors??

Fascinating stuff. You must have access to some serious narcotics.

[Big Orange Junky]

Cheek 'hamstrung' Dooley?? Harder to get into Vandy than UT?? Don't want pressure from professors??

Fascinating stuff. You must have access to some serious narcotics.

This didn't come from me. I have no inside info. This came from REPUTABLE REPORTERS. This isn't made up stuff. Just go read the articles or listen to the radio shows.

You may not like Matthews, Hubbs, Hyams etc etc but you know they aren't just lying about us doing away with our program to get borderline athletes into UT and Vandy starting theirs. You know they aren't lying about not being even allowed to ask how a kid is doing in class or Cheek charging football players out of state tuition instead of instate like the other football teams do in this conference.

Those are all facts that are not disputed.

I ask you does it make sense that the coaches can't even ask how their kids are doing in school? Does it make sense that we do away with a program to get kids into school and Vandy starts using that same program that we now shun? How are they supposed to keep the kid eligible if they can't even check to see if he is attending class or if he is failing or not. That's hamstringing them and that's a fact.

[bluetick]

Those are all facts that are not disputed.

Hubbs and Hyams have never said the UTAD is hamstrung by academics. Saying the lie LOUDER and tossing in more names won't make your case. The bit about coaches not being able to check academic progress is bizarre. You keep pulling stuff out of your ass. Harder to get into Vandy than UT?! What is wrong with you?

BOJ - curious - what institutions of higher learning bestowed a Bachelors and a medical degree on you?

[Big Orange Junky]

They didn't say the words "hamstrung" but after reading their articles agreeing with Matthews and from their updates on the BOT meetings about how things had to change you could say "hamstrung".

I didn't pull anything out. As I said I don't have any sources other than reporters. None. Most of my info comes from Matthews, Hubbs, Hyams, etc etc. Occasionally from the KNS.

I never claimed any of this as my own info. I got it from reporters that I have no reason to think were lying. I didn't think they were lying when they report good stuff so I don't have any reason to think they are lying when they report that there are institutional problems that made coaches look elsewhere last time.

This is from Hubbs: "Then there is the scholarship issue. Last year, 82% of the student-athletes on campus were from out of state. The difference in out of state tuition versus in-state tuition in an academic year is $13,000.00. Tennessee's scholarship budget for 2012-2013 was 10.6 million. A number higher than their competitors for two reasons. One, Tennessee has more out of state athletes. Two, other schools waive out of state tuition for that athletes and treat them as in-state residents. Tennessee has approximately 360 student-athletes on scholarship which means approximately 295 are out of state students. If those 295 were charged in-state resident fees instead of out of state, the athletics department would save 3.83 million dollars."

I don't make stuff up out of thin air. There is your in state vs out of state tuition and get this, they aren't even going to change that now, Hart says he will have to fight that battle some other time. Heck he shouldn't have to fight that battle at all that's a 3.8 million dollar disadvantage right there alone.

I mean if you hate Matthews so much because he was a Fulmer guy so as not to believe him on the Fulmer stuff fine, but he wasn't a POS Scumbag guy nor a Dooley guy so why would he be "making excuses for them", which he hasn't . He just said that the english department is one reason we got all the way down to Dooley and that we can't get kids into school any more because UT has went the direction Vandy used to be in regards to admissions of borderline athletes and that Vandy since Franklin came around put in a system just like the one UT done away with.

I'm not anti UT, nor anti english department. I am shocked at the lack of cooperation that happened between them, especially with this information.

Now if you have information to the contrary, from an inside source that you trust then spill it.

[GBJs]

Y'all hate Georgia that bad?

Georgia doesn't care. Only Florida cared about USC vs Notre Dame.

If Georgia takes care of business vs Alabama, they play in the MNC.

...G,BIIT...

[GBJs]

non sequitur

See above.

[bluetick]

Seriously, BOJ, where did you get your degrees? Or would you rather not say?

[Big Orange Junky]

LOL, no I don't mind at all. I figgured you already knew as long as you have been on these boards but I just kinda skipped over that since we were discussing something else and I wanted to find the quote from Hubbs on the out of state tuition stuff.

I got mine from The University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, and I went to medical school at East Tennessee State University (but was also accepted at UT, picked ETSU because it was a better school and I didn't want to live in Memphis).

I don't know why that would matter.

[Big Orange Junky]

"Now, the changes that came about were a result of mistakes that were made with oversight and the athletic department itself was certainly culpable in some of that. Because of some irregularities that occurred the decision was made to take the oversight of the Thornton Center completely away from the athletic department and turn it over to the academic side of the university."


"As I'm well meaning as I'm sure the academic authorities were, it had a debilitating effect on the athletic department. The academic department, which again I'm sure had good intentions, just didn't have the same motivation to make sure those athletes were there studying and getting better in the classroom.

I can't stress how huge of a problem it was in helping the young men and women that the whole system was put in place for originally.

One of the results of this shift was that no one from the athletic side could have any involvement with the academic side. What I mean by that is that a coach couldn't even pick up the phone and call a tutor, or a professor, and find out what was happening with a player...................... I've heard all these concerns expressed about how you don't want a coach calling and putting pressure on a professor. There are a couple of key things on that, but the first one is, I was a college assistant for over 20 years, I don't know of any assistant coach who would want to put himself in a position where he was trying to put pressure on a tenured--that's a key word--faculty member............................ From that point up until today the athletic department has had zero input into anything to do with the Thornton Center, and in my opinion it's greatly affected how you're able to monitor your players and keep up with what's happening with them in the classroom..................Make no mistake, the athletic department made some mistakes of its own to put themselves in a position where they lost the authority to oversee the Thornton Center. However, I think the response was heavy-handed and irresponsible and we're still paying the price for it in our athletic programs. You don't throw the baby out with the bath-water as the old saying goes, and I think that's what we did in this case."

Talking about the new arrangement ....."So the chancellor reports to the faculty senate, already, to anyone paying attention, you have some inherent conflicts. Just by the very nature of things, the faculty senate and the athletic department are very often going to be on different sides of the same issue. Quite frankly, a lot of that stems from the fact that the faculty generally feels that coaches make too much money and too many exceptions are made for athletics..........That chain of command has only been in place for a couple of years now, but even in that short time I think it's already been incredibly damaging. Not just for the athletic department, but for the University as a whole.

That needs to be changed as soon as possible. It needs to be changed tomorrow"

On an example for the above change hamstringing athletics "In the 11 or 12 year period of time since Dr. Johnson and Doug Dickey left, we've had no one in athletic directors chair to even fight just to keep the status quo. In that time period the athletic department's autonomy has just been slowly stripped away.

One of those areas, and somewhere you can see the impact of the chancellor being in control of the department, is with the curriculum. That has been changed greatly, and not in any way that benefits athletics.

You no longer have those curriculums where you can put borderline athletes. I'm not advocating for something that's not in line with what our competitors are doing. Nearly every university has those majors where you can put borderline athletes. Vanderbilt, Stanford, Georgia Tech; they all have them. In the past we've had those programs ourselves. Now we don't and it's a problem...............Now our ability to get those players in has not only been compromised, our ability to keep those players eligible has also been compromised.

What's the solution? Well, in a big picture sense, it starts with Governor Haslam appointing better members to the Board of Trust. We need members appointed who want to work for the better of the university as a whole, which certainly includes the athletic department. We don't need members who are simply there as a political appointment or someone who just wants to have something on their resume."


http://tennessee.rivals.com/content.asp ... &PT=4&PR=2
That was from Mathews and Rob Lewis. Then after the article that these things came from hit VQ Hubbs answered questions as to it's validity and admitted that yes it is a problem and some reporter, not sure if it was Hubbs or not said it was one of the problems with the last coaching search and if it didn't get changed it could hamper this one as well. Then there was lots of emphasis on the BOT meeting a couple of weeks ago. They also said that yes since Franklin was hired Vandy has a program for marginal athletes just like UT used to have but we don't have it any more so it really is easier to get a marginal student into Vandy than into UT.

Also I have seen articles quoting Cheek saying something to the effect of it was hard to explain to hard working professors why an assistant football coach should get paid so much and also the infamous "we don't have a plan" quote.

So I don't have a source. I only know what is being reported, but looking at everything it appears that there has been a problem for a while but again I don't know and that's why I asked for folks on here to give their input on the situation. To say "it's horsecrap and you made it up" isn't what I was looking for. I didn't make any of it up.

I was looking for other viewpoints besides "that can't be true, oh it came from Matthews so it is Fulmer garbage".

So Tick I welcome your reasons as to why you don't think it is true besides the shoot the messenger, author etc comments. What do you know or have you seen that makes you think it isn't a problem?



"

[bluetick]

LMAO

You are DrBubba1One @ Scout. The one-man "learnin' is killlin our football" -gang. Wow.

I don't know why that would matter.

Riiiiiight..

[Big Orange Junky]

Tick, no I am Big Orange Junky on Volquest and everywhere else and I don't have a Scout account, only Rivals. I don't have multiple names.

Now please enlighten me as to what it matters where my degrees are from? This should be interesting.

Still waiting on your information that is as credible as the quotes I have posted above, again I know this is hard for you but try not to shoot the messenger and actually have a discussion on the points above, such as Vandy now has the program we scrapped, we charge out of state tuition costing the Athletic Department 3.8 million more than other schools, and we have the english department running athletics with no checking on athletes allowed by the coaching staff. Those are not things I have said, but are statements from reputable reporters with inside knowledge of what is going on.

Again if you have info to the contrary let's hear it, specifically about the points above.

[bluetick]

Just wanted to get it straight...what academic basis you have for sneering at UT wanting to be a top 25 research school.

As for your "quotes" - your one link doesn't work. Surprise.