Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[THE_WIZARD_]

As long as politicians continue to lie to the American people about the looming debt crisis they will get elected...hell as long as the idiot voters continue to ignore it they will...

99% of the issues we face in this country should be handled at the state level. Let the feds worry about national defense, the FAA, FCC and TRUE interstate commerce (not that which is fabricated) and get the fuck out of the rest we will be better off...MUCH better off...

[10ac]

Mandatory RU-486 for preg welfare moms.

[T Dot O Dot]

Mandatory RU-486 for preg welfare moms.

and thats a beef you need to sort out in-house with the pro-life posse

[Jungle Rat]

Wizzie seems to be an angry old fuck. I guess limp dick isn't doing him so well.

[innocentbystander]

the US needs a 3rd party, badly

The fiscally responsible conservatives who don't give a shyt about abortion, religion & aren't racist must seriously feel like their getting the shitty end of the stick because the republican constituents are filled with a bunch of wierdos who the middle can't get behind

You want the Republican Party to be a Libertarian Party. That doesn't work.

Part of the word "conservative" is the root word: "conserve." The GOP has a platform where some things are worth conserving.

I'm sorry you are too bigotted to see the damnation that abortion has wrought upon almost hundred million Americans (those who were murdered and those who consented to their murder) but this is a deal breaker for the GOP. Life is more important than anything.

and in the next breath you bytch about welfare mothers making babies

which is it?

and your definition of conservative is your own, any real conservative (dollars and cents) would not only be okay with abortion, they'd open a clinic on every street corner

You don't know history or civics. How did you graduate college?

Its only been the last 50 years where single mothers got any kind of benefits from government. We didn't have "welfare" prior to LBJ's Great Society (certainly not in the manner it is today.) We had widows and orphans pensions. There was no benefit for single mothers. We had public housing but only families (married, mom and dad) were allowed in them. And they were temporary situation, not a perminant lifestyle for multiple generations of unmarried girls. The kind of benefit a single mother could avail herself of in the 1940s or 1950s was being sent away to a home for wayward girls, giving birth in secrecy, and giving that baby up for adoption. Yes, there was once a time infertile married couples could actually adopt babies born in the United States instead of importing them from China, Guatamalla, Russia, and South American for $50,000. Used to be over 300,000 adpotions of babies born in the US annually. Today, less than 40,000, mostly because the government PAYS to support the single mom to raise them herself.

Conservatives were never okay with abortion. Abortion has only really been the murderous epidemic that it is (one-in-three pregnancies terminated) since the very early 1970s. Prior to that, it was one pregnancy in thirty that was aborted. We didn't have the epidemic of unwanted pregnacy 50 years ago mostly because we had Christianity. Christ and the fear of eternal damnation kept singles from fucking and impregnating each other (and they believed it.) They believed in the Bible and the Gospels. The Church had real strength keeping people on moral paths. Then we had oral contraceptives, the swinging 1960s, drugs, the "..if it feels good, do it...." generation, and now too many of the bastards that the Boomers brought into the planet are in prison (and we are all paying for that.)

Read some history books. Look at some demographich trends. Look at the bastard rate among our prison population, its frightening.

[innocentbystander]

As long as politicians continue to lie to the American people about the looming debt crisis they will get elected...hell as long as the idiot voters continue to ignore it they will...

99% of the issues we face in this country should be handled at the state level. Let the feds worry about national defense, the FAA, FCC and TRUE interstate commerce (not that which is fabricated) and get the fuck out of the rest we will be better off...MUCH better off...

Wiz, the people in this country that actually CARE about the Federal Debt, they all voted for Romney. Problem is, hundreds of millions of people DO. NOT. CARE. We need to have a "Greece" event, and even then, they still wont care.

We are no longer fit for self rule.

Repeal the 26th Amendment

End Women's Suffrage

[Owlman]

Its only been the last 50 years where single mothers got any kind of benefits from government.

You're are a pure idiot. You've made this argument before and have been proven wrong. I'll point it out to you again, but I suspect later, you'll again make this false statement. AFDC (Aid to families with dependent children) was part of the Social Security Act and was around from 1935 until it was stopped by Clinton in the late 1990's.

[Owlman]

Isn't Wiz supposed to be moving?

[innocentbystander]

Its only been the last 50 years where single mothers got any kind of benefits from government.

You're are a pure idiot. You've made this argument before and have been proven wrong. I'll point it out to you again, but I suspect later, you'll again make this false statement. AFDC (Aid to families with dependent children) was part of the Social Security Act and was around from 1935 until it was stopped by Clinton in the late 1990's.

And you can't read. That was intended for children, NOT PARENTS. It was "Aid to Dependant Children." (my orphans pension from my earlier post.) It wasn't until 1962 before the words "Families with" were added to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid_to_Fam ... t_Children

The program was created under the name Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) by the Social Security Act of 1935 as part of the New Deal; the words "families with" were added to the name in 1962, partly due to concern that the program's rules discouraged marriage.[

This program was never-ever intended for the mother of the children. It was meant SOLELY for the children. There was a terrible stigma for single motherhood (until the 1960s.) So Owlman, kindly shut the fuck up, you have no idea what you are talking about...

[Owlman]

It went to people with children. Not to orphans. Just because it was called Aid to children (the word families was added in 1962, under Kennedy and BEFORE the Great Society Programs), doesn't mean that it didn't go to women with children. AFDC is Aid to families WITH dependent children. So get your fucking history straight. Welfare didn't start under Johnson and the Great Society. I would say get your facts straight, but you have proven an unwillingness to adhere to facts.

In science, you are supposed to get facts and then develop a theory that fits all the available facts. It is not shift through facts and then shove them into what you think the theory should be.

[puterbac]

Prof, economic conservatism would have a better chance if it didn't get dragged down by social wedge issues. Overturning Roe and limiting contraception are losers now and become bigger losers with every passing day.

R's have had both houses, the court and presidency at the same time. Yet Roe is still the law. What a fucking strawman that is. And even if it were overturned is simply reverts to the states.

So let me get this straight: If we don't force companies and insurance to provide stuff for free, that means you are limiting it? What a sick joke. Nobody was banning or limiting contraception. Really tick?

[innocentbystander]

Prof, economic conservatism would have a better chance if it didn't get dragged down by social wedge issues. Overturning Roe and limiting contraception are losers now and become bigger losers with every passing day.

R's have had both houses, the court and presidency at the same time. Yet Roe is still the law. What a fucking strawman that is. And even if it were overturned is simply reverts to the states.

So let me get this straight: If we don't force companies and insurance to provide stuff for free, that means you are limiting it?

That is exactly what Tick is saying.

Some people (who do not understand cause and effect) have no business voting. We gave them the right to vote, and that is the end of this country. We are no longer mature enough for self-rule.

Repeal the 26th Amendment

End Women's Suffrage

[Owlman]

Roe V. Wade is not the law of the land.

[puterbac]

Roe V. Wade is not the law of the land.

Okay. I'm open to learning...how so?

[puterbac]

And someone posted the article about prices being high in the USA and the article whined about:

"Two of the five most profitable industries in the United States — the pharmaceuticals industry and the medical device industry — sell health care. With margins of almost 20 percent, they beat out even the financial sector for sheer profitability."

The medical device industry has to have higher sales margins as our volumes are extremely LOW. When you only sell 150 something a year, you better make a lot of money off of each unit to be able to pay the cost of doing business. If we were selling a million of them, they'd be cheaper and sell at lower margins.

The idiocy of Opramacare taxing medical device manufacturers 2.5% on their gross REVENUE (not profits, but REVENUE) is becoming apparent as numerous companies are announcing layoffs and/or moving out of the USA. Its ridiculous. Lets say your gross revenue is 100 million and your net profit after everything is 2 million....well not now cause you have to pay 2.5 million tax right off the top. So now instead of making 2 million profit you are now losing 500,000.

Lets make it harder for companies to invent and create the products that save count less lives each year...yeah thats brilliant.

[puterbac]

A Pyrrhic Victory for America’s Youth

By Scott W. Atlas

November 12, 2012 4:00 A.M.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... tt-w-atlas

Dancing in Chicago, young voters gleefully celebrated President Obama’s victory. Indeed, voters younger than 30 may well have changed the outcome of the race. They represented 19 percent of all voters, even more than they did in 2008, and they favored President Obama by 60 to 37 percent, according to exit polling.

One college student asked me, “What exactly are they so excited about?”

Presumably, they aren’t celebrating their job prospects. Under this administration, unemployment of younger Americans and recent college graduates is not very different from the scandalous unemployment rates of youth in failing European countries whose misguided economic policies are creating a nearly jobless generation.

Presumably, they aren’t celebrating the increasing tax burdens awaiting the lucky few of them — mainly those who have studied hard and long and spent a great deal on both the direct and indirect (from delayed entry into the work force) costs of advanced education — who will finally attain lucrative jobs.

And presumably, they aren’t celebrating the changes in health care for themselves and their future children directly caused by the now inexorable progression of their president’s signature legislation. The list of unwelcome changes is long:

Many people will not be able to choose their doctor, as millions will lose their current insurance plan and, along with it, their doctors.

Private insurance companies, squeezed dry by the limits Obamacare places on their profit margins, will disappear, even though most doctors accept private insurance and it is proven to result in superior medical outcomes.

Even young, healthy people will be forced to buy expensive health coverage, because Obamacare requires expansive coverage of high-cost care. Consumers will no longer be able to buy less comprehensive, lower-cost insurance, such as high-deductible plans with health-savings accounts, even if that insurance would make the most sense for them.

Millions of Americans will be shifted into Medicaid, insurance that pays doctors and hospitals so little that the needed care will simply not be available — as proven again and again in the U.S. (where fewer and fewer doctors provide care to Medicaid and Medicare recipients, specifically because of low reimbursement rates), as well as in other countries dominated by government insurance.

Parents and grandparents will lose access to the very medical technology and drugs that have revolutionized health care in the past half century; these will become less available to Medicare beneficiaries because of cuts by the Independent Payment Advisory Board.

There will be fewer high-paying careers in the medical-technology industry: Obamacare’s misguided medical-device tax (on revenues, not just profits) is already destroying high-paying jobs for Americans and moving them overseas. More than 400,000 high-paying American jobs of the very sort young people seek are at risk because companies in California, Indiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, and elsewhere are already eliminating jobs specifically because of Obamacare’s onerous taxes.

Our reelected president, so jubilantly cheered by young voters last week, has completely failed to address what is the single most important problem in America’s health care: the total cost burden on U.S. taxpayers. With Obamacare, one of the greatest intergenerational financial transfers in history, America’s younger generation will bear the burden of unsustainable, ever-expanding entitlements.

Presumably, the young voters who approved of the past four years and chose this year to follow the path set forth by President Obama know exactly what’s in store.

Well, I say go for it, keep on dancing, but watch out when the music stops.

[10ac]

Roe V. Wade is not the law of the land.

Okay. I'm open to learning...how so?

Sewmantics, puter.

[Toemeesleather]

and this differentiates them from the republicans how?

And of course, pls continue to bury your head in the sand, like the MSM tells you to do, w/regards to California, Illinois, and Michigan (have you seen Detroit lately)....democrats on parade for all (that want to) to see.

[puterbac]

The comments on many of the articles detailing layoffs and reduction in hours to 28 for many industries are comical.

WTF did people think was going to happen? It always amazes me (ticks me off) that the CBO etc is always prevented from thinking about how people will react to tax hikes nor who they would respond to tax cuts etc. Govt always assumes that its static: "Well there was 2 trillion in income last year, so if we raise taxes 10% we'll get another 200 billion in revenue. Done."

Well nooooooo....Companies and people change their behaviour based on tax law. You take more money from them and they will work to try and get it back by cutting jobs, moving overseas, spending less on equipment and R&D, people hold off on big purchases etc. Companies and people respond like govt should because companies and people don't own a legal printing press.

[Owlman]

Planned Parenthood versus Casey (1992) is the law of the land, replacing Roe's emphasis on the trimester system. Before this case, Kennedy had expressed a desire to overturn Roe. But for this case, he created a coalition with O'Conner and Souter that was a more of a middle position.