Florida State Seminoles

[Saint]

it wasn't the man (at least not all of it), it was the message and Romney didn't act like the gov. of Mass during the general campaign. like McCain, his harder right turn to solidify his position with his base likely cost him a lot of centrist votes. Romney was a compassionate conservative and that guy might have won.

[eCat]

Also I know Romney is a Mormon and all, but I find it a little difficult to believe that a party would run the governor of Massachusetts for President, lose, and come out of it saying...wow, we've got to get more socially liberal!

maybe but is immigration going to be the only issue with Latino's? I can't believe that Latino's will throw in with the GOP (which will self destruct before they accept a progressive amnesty policy anyways) which is going to tout less government security blanket, less health care, less social security and medicare and more self reliance while at the same time start sending their sons and daughters off to fight wars.

The democrats learned you lose elections on gun control so they effectively dropped it from the platform. They'll give it lip service once in awhile when its politically astute to do so but then they go back to avoiding it as much as possible.

The GOP will need to learn that lesson on their social agenda. I'm not saying they will do it, but there are enough of them out there now that realize its an anchor sinking their ship. They need to move to a platform of religious tolerance and the idea of individual rights

[Dora]

[Dora]

Thanks Hedge!

[innocentbystander]

Little problem with this one Dora.

The women that voted for Romney didn't do so because they weren't pissed at the President. And the women that voted to re-elect the President didn't do so because they were pissed off at Romney.

Largely, the women that voted for Romney did so because they were married and cared about their children and their childrens' future. Their vote for ROmney is a vote against our Federal Debt. The women who voted to re-elect this President did so because they don't have husbands and need government to make them whole. These women don't care about the Federal debt (mostly because they have never paid off their own debts.) President Obama won the Democrat-Gold-digger goverment EBT vote.

Hope I didn't piss you off...

Repeal the 26th Amendment

End Women's Suffrage

[eCat]

both parties have armies on the ground which are fairly polarized. but the core of each is closer to the real problem in that big govt. serves as an arm of big business and putting that genie back in the bottle is probably never going to happen. a lady beside me in Moe's last night complained that Obama was killing small businesses but isn't Romney's adherence to corporate dominance in part thru outsourcing jobs and focusing on the bottom line just as harmful as Obama's higher tax rate?

I still think people need to see govt as a solution instead of a problem, which it is right now. that comes from greater involvement at the roots level and working upward instead of bellyaching about DC politicians.

And make no doubt about it, we are certainly a divided nation but no more so than in previous eras with (mostly) higher-educated urbanites and (mostly) less-educated rural people having very different perspectives.

The GOP would be wise to not just court the voters they haven't had on their side but actually make itself attractive to those voters (minorities, low-income, women, etc) by enacting more inclusive policies. right now the GOP comes off as a bunch of white guys who think they know it all because they've managed, however they've done it, to forge a comfortable living and don't care about those who don't have that.

I think you can say the GOP's hands off of business has led many to refocus on the need of government in their lives - from regulation to the EPA, to the slap in the face that we have more billionaires than ever before while we also have more people on welfare than at any other time in our nation. Even I have to admit that its so out of whack that something radical has to be done - but I don't think the answer is taxes going up or down (eliminated is another issue)

[aTm]

Hispanics, are in general pretty conservative. The problem with them in general is their level of wealth which fits large amounts of them within a lot of the social needs stuff you mention. As a group though they are very self-reliant and probably more loathe than any other segment to depend on any kind of security blanket. Middle/lower middle class hispanics are extremely averse to borrow money for something unless they absolutely have to. Its going to become a bit of a problem with getting them into college as well, because going to college relies (these days) on accepting a shit ton of debt and knowing you'll eventually be able to pay it off. Eventually there are going to be large numbers of hispanics that arent dirt poor, there will be a huge pool of generally conservative minded middle class. They will be there for the taking, IMO.

[eCat]

Hispanics, are in general pretty conservative. The problem with them in general is their level of wealth which fits large amounts of them within a lot of the social needs stuff you mention. As a ghroup though they are very self-reliant and probably more loathe than any other segment to depend on any kind of security blanket. Middle/lower middle class hispanics wont are extremely averse to borrow money for something unless they absolutely have to. Its going to become a bit of a problem with getting them into college as well, because going to college relies (these days) on accepting a shit ton of debt and knowing you'll eventually be able to pay it off. Eventually there are going to be large numbers of hispanics that arent dirt poor, there will be a huge pool of generally conservative minded middle class. They will be there for the taking, IMO.

perhaps - although Georgia went to Mitt Romney - How does Atlanta allow that to happen?

I'm not sure when there will be large numbers of hispanics that aren't dirt poor but I don't think that changes the fact that there will still be 10x as many that are still dirt poor and have kids on the school lunch program, taking in subsidized health care and trying to get pell grants for college.

[aTm]

perhaps - although Georgia went to Mitt Romney - How does Atlanta allow that to happen?

Urban vote in cities is generally largely counter balanced by its suburban vote.

[aTm]

The city of Atlanta is only 10% of its metropolitan area population.

[Saint]

that may be true aTm but the local health dept. waiting room is about 80% Latino these days in a poor eastern NC county with a rapidly growing Hispanic population. the aid being given is needed, I'm sure, and Latinos here will live in abandoned farmhouses with holes in the floor, work long hours for little pay on farms and, as long as they can play soccer and roast goats in vacant lots on weekends, don't seem to mind. but they're still living up for WIC vouchers and Medicaid.

[AlabamAlum]

I live in Alabama, I'll handle all questions on Hispanic voting and politics from now on.

[Dora]

IB, you're an idiot!

[Saint]

I think you can say the GOP's hands off of business has led many to refocus on the need of government in their lives - from regulation to the EPA, to the slap in the face that we have more billionaires than ever before while we also have more people on welfare than at any other time in our nation. Even I have to admit that its so out of whack that something radical has to be done - but I don't think the answer is taxes going up or down (eliminated is another issue)

agreed the solution has more to do with spending and less of it. these wars have drained our resources but the one in Afghanistan is still going on.

and taxes aren't hurting the average American family as much as the spiraling cost of living. the rent too damn high!

[Dora]

And btw IB, I'm married & I have children & grandchildren. I'm taking them all to Disney World on my dime.

[innocentbystander]

Hispanics, are in general pretty conservative. The problem with them in general is their level of wealth which fits large amounts of them within a lot of the social needs stuff you mention. As a group though they are very self-reliant and probably more loathe than any other segment to depend on any kind of security blanket.

You know that souds nice but that is not the case (certainly not the case here in Arizona.) Largely, Hispanics flood our emergency rooms and have no money to pay. Largely, Hispanic are crowding into our WIC and Welfare offices. They do game the system for every penny they can get.

Middle/lower middle class hispanics are extremely averse to borrow money for something unless they absolutely have to.

True, but you aren't following this to its logical reason. They are averse to borrowing money for something (anything) not because they have to, but because they haven't figured out yet how to game the system in such a way as they would not have to pay the money back. An illegal immigrant can't get credit let alone declare bankruptcy. And for those in Arizona that are willing to borrow, they wind up flooding our Payday Loans and Pawn Shops.

Its going to become a bit of a problem with getting them into college as well, because going to college relies (these days) on accepting a shit ton of debt and knowing you'll eventually be able to pay it off. Eventually there are going to be large numbers of hispanics that arent dirt poor, there will be a huge pool of generally conservative minded middle class. They will be there for the taking, IMO.

A lot of that depends on what state they live in and what kind of state relief there is for minority groups (and the amount they have to pay for tuition.)

[Saint]

I've listened to preachers
I've listened to fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role

there's a good bio on Showtime about Ozzy now. it's 2 years old and his son, Jack, is one of the producers. Ozzy, at the time it was made, had 5 years sober and apparently was completely fucked up during the MTV show era. also, the oldest daughter who wasn't on that show is pretty hot.

[aTm]

eCat will no doubt be glad to hear that Houston ISD overwhelmingly passed (80%) a $2 Billion bond issue to rebuild, renovate or replace 38 schools include all 28 high schools.

[eCat]

I think you can say the GOP's hands off of business has led many to refocus on the need of government in their lives - from regulation to the EPA, to the slap in the face that we have more billionaires than ever before while we also have more people on welfare than at any other time in our nation. Even I have to admit that its so out of whack that something radical has to be done - but I don't think the answer is taxes going up or down (eliminated is another issue)

agreed the solution has more to do with spending and less of it. these wars have drained our resources but the one in Afghanistan is still going on.

and taxes aren't hurting the average American family as much as the spiraling cost of living. the rent too damn high!

interesting tidbit yesterday from Ohio - polling suggested the #2 concern for Americans behind jobs/economy wasn't the deficit, wars, or social issues - it was rising prices.

I thought that was way to insightful for average voter considering unless I'm just reading too much into it.

[aTm]

I dont think I really need to make any kind of rebuttal to IB.