Toronto Raptors - We can't be pathetic forever, can we?

[yossarian1234]

My beef isn't that I think he could've netted us more by himself. Only that there are more than two months left in offseason and you can trade him for peanuts later after they've exhausted all their options with other pieces. See if he can't help move other pieces or get slightly more value back. If you find you can't in September, you can always trade him then. This team needs to make a move or two during the offseason, needs all the help they can get. Of course, locking themselves into a stupid contract might have forced them into trading Johnson sooner for "flexibility"

[sotola]

re - you can trade him for peanuts later

not true at all. No team with tax constraints spends 3M on a guy UNLESS he is in the regular rotation (and most teams in tax territory have no need for Johnson). a 3m salary for a team in tax territory is actually greater than 3M. and waiting until the end of all the off season moves ensures that more teams have cap problems. if you want to make a deal whose sole intent is to create more flexibility, then you make the deal when someone wants to take him. if you wait, they might not be able to make the deal without sending you a player back which destroys the purpose of making the deal.

i understand your point... that it's not necessarily hard to trade him later but nothing guarantees a team has the cap room or desire to take him on. The other side of the equation is what having the extra funds means to potentially packaging Calderon into a deal. we don't know if BC isn't already trying to broker another deal and what the 3M savings would mean to it.

[tin mad dog]

The little guy you took instead of Drummond looks like he could be a good player, from what I saw of him a couple of days ago.

[sotola]

As much as summer league means, take this for what it's worth.... Ross is the best rookie that we have ever sent (cant remember what vc looked like but he is better than everyone else since tmac was horrible back then). I can't say I had seen a lot of him before the draft so I was clearly on a "wait and see" approach but I am now genuinely excited. He needs time but he has the tools.

[yossarian1234]

As much as summer league means, Jeremy Lamb looks better. As much as summer league means.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. And that shooting % kinda stinks.

[sotola]

that's your opinion on Lamb and we will see when it comes to real games. Most Uconn players can score... most can't defend and fewer do well in the NBA which is why I am not a big fan.

the shooting % for Ross stinks because the team stinks and he is being forced to take shots he doesn't want. but do you want any of the other guys shooting? Have you seen the games or just the boxscores (serious question)? If it is just boxscores then I would encourage you to wait and see.

it's not his scoring or his stats that impress me.... it's coming off screens, his ability to beat guys off the dribble, and his hops. those little things translate into the NBA game far better than college. I actually think his shooting was overrated if that was his strong suit. I like what he does with and without the ball more.

[yossarian1234]

Nope. Don't watch summer league although I do look at stats and read reports since I'm still interested to know how the rookies do. Kinda waste of time to watch the games when they can give you false hope. Watching some of them dominate some no-name scrub and fall flat against real competition. Everybody also out to get their own usually means the games are unwatchable more than half the time.

I was just pointing out that if you are gonna put any stock in summer league and how he does stats or no stats against bunch of scrubs, Lamb simply looks better under the same circumstances.

As for his team sucking...umm... this is summer league, most of the roster for every single team is filled with scrubs that will never make it. To me, they are all on the same boat. Either way, don't really care about summer league much but found it interesting you are cheering like never before.

[sotola]

My post clearly eluded to the fact that you can't take much from summer league but you can take even less from box scores. So please forgive me if I don't believe that lamb has played as well. I have seen Ross four times and lamb three. If the box scores tell you lamb has played better and that you think he has more upside, I can't argue with your box score analysis. Time will tell... Hopefully he reaches that max ceiling of a fringe starter you have him pegged for. I think that comment will probably be an interesting comment in a couple years.

[T Dot O Dot]

back to the Ross pick, before we start talking about Lamb & Drummond, let's discuss guys who were taken prior

Dion Waiters is shooting 30% from the field and 17% from 3 in summer league, a guy we would have reportedly taken even if Barnes was on the board

I never got the hype, Ive seen theCuse play plenty and I also know boeheim has no problem throwing a stud underclassmen into a starting role (see Carmelo)

dont want to make too many judgements based on summer league but Waiters' bust factor is through the roof right now

[sotola]

I only saw Waiters once and he didn't look good but I did like what I had seen from him from Syracuse. I thought Waiters/Lilliard were good Raptor fits. Lilliard looked really good. Like I said, you can't take too much from summer league but Ross was better than I anticipated. I didn't see him really contributing much next year but I have higher hopes after watching what he did. If he listens to the staff and commits to defense, he will be in the regular rotation because he was far more athletic than advertised.

[yossarian1234]

Never understood how stock of a guy projected at mid-teens all of a sudden shot up so quickly in mocks especially since he stopped doing workouts altogether so early in the process. I can understand if a guy impressed so much during workouts with his athleticism/skills, which is what usually happens with a couple of players in every draft. But this guy didn't even do that. I'm thinking some of that had to be smokescreen being thrown out and Cavs are the fools who took the bait. Was glad they did and took him out of Toronto's pool of selections so quick.

[sotola]

Waiters stopped workouts because he was apparently given a promise that he would be taken by a certain team. The rumour was that it was Toronto but I could understand him stopping if he was told by Cavs management that he would go 4th overall. why risk an injury when you are already going to be taken higher than anyone would have expected?

his problem, and it's a huge problem, is that he looked to have gained at least 10-15 pounds since the end of the season. At his age, that stuff shouldn't happen. That tells me he has some bad habits which normally never works out well.

[yossarian1234]

Well, there's been no actual confirmation as to who gave the promise as a lot of names have been thrown out there including Phoenix. Whatever the case, after he figured he doesn't have to work out for teams any more, he probably stopped working altogether. I don't know what's with Cleveland and #4. They really reach deep with those picks.

[sotola]

Alan Anderson? This signing probably bothers me more than fields frankly. This dude ruined operation tank more than anyone else simply by playing better then he ever has. Why reward a guy by ruining the teams objectives? I know it's a minimum contract but we just got the best we will ever get.... And we didn't want it... At least I hope.

[sotola]

And one other thing.... Why does Mlse continue to play games between the Vancouver grizzlies and the raps under the title "nba classics"? There was nothing classic about those games other than calling those clowns nba professionals.

[yossarian1234]

How's Valanciunas in Olympics? I didn't see any games but some of the stat lines I see are not that impressive. Nothing wrong with that since I didn't expect much with him being one of the young guys. What concerns me is that he's starting but doesn't actually play a whole lot during the game. I can't comment without watching the actual games but whatever the fuck his coach's thinking/doing, can't help with his confidence. If you are not gonna play him anyway, why even start him?

[T Dot O Dot]

Lithuania has a strong chance to medal and it appears to me that their coach has bowed to the pressure by starting Jova and that's as far as he's willing to go

basically he starts the first & 3rd quarters and after getting meager minutes he's never seen again unless someone ahead of him gets in foul trouble

he's too raw, and after they pretty much gave the US their only scare of the tournament I would say the stakes are higher now, so I doubt things are going to get any better for him in the olympics

for Lithuania basketball, this just isnt the time or place to be developing up & comers

[Bklyn]

Did Lithuania advance? They were 1 - 3 after their loss to the USA. I wasn't sure if they had won enough in a tough field to advance on.

[yossarian1234]

I'm fine with Valanciunas not playing too much and them not having time to develop him in Olympics.

But starting him for the sake of starting him then taking him out at the first chance, I'm not fine with. That would hurt anyone's confidence let alone a 20-year old's and that's the last thing we need during a crucial rookie season.

I also got the feeling that his idiot coach's just trying to save face by starting him so he can say "hey, at least I tried." but he needs to stop this BS. If you are gonna cave in, do it all the way. If you are gonna do it your way and you don't think he's not ready then by all means, play him off the bench. Right now he's only thinking of himself and his job and the only person being hurt by this is Valanciunas.

Hopefully, my concern is premature and Valanciunas comes out of this with some fire inside and plays his ass off for us, earn PT and starting job sooner rather than later to show that idiot coach.

[Douger]

TDOT, Arty, Sean

Any of you fellas want in for fantasy football? We've got a league of WX guys with 10, and would like 12, but we'll just go with 10 if nobody else wants in.

Any takers? Email me at douger76@yahoo.com if you wanna play. I need 2 people.

Oh, and you guys are all fags.

Love,

CD