Toronto Raptors - We can't be pathetic forever, can we?

[sotola]

I love the creative part of making the offer but I am confused how they could include a restricted free agent as part of any deal.

If he currently doesn't have a deal then how can you trade him? and how does he have any value in a trade if he doesn't have a contract? Is there a difference between "matching" an offer sheet and signing him outright? were they able to sign and trade him... I thought they got rid of that in the new cba.

and yes, it's overpaying but once again... short term and he's serviceable. I think BC is just trying to get some better pieces that he can hopefully add as cap adder for future deals but with short term contracts

[yossarian1234]

I've accepted the reality that this team isn't bad enough to compete for top lottery but not good enough to challenge for top spot either through FA/trade or whatever but it's also been too much losing for too long that the team should really try its best with what they've got and see how far it can go although most likely outcome is a treadmill playoff team for several years at best. I understand some goodwill needs to built before they have to go through another rebuilding. I've accepted it before NBA draft although I still hated them for fucking up the tank at the last minute.

So I'm ok with overpaying for certain talents to go for playoffs now, even a 38-year old PG in Steve Nash. But really, this is starting to get out of hand. First Terrence Ross and now this? Wow, Colangelo has been really chomping at the bits trying to go all out trying to win now at all costs, huh? But I don't know if this is the price I'd be willing to pay. 9M on the last year of the deal for Landry Fields? WTF? Just so we can have a better chance at Nash? And suppose Nash still decides not to come here, what then? You pay friggin' 9M on Landry Fields on that 3rd year? That'll be painful.

[sotola]

re - I've accepted the reality that this team isn't bad enough to compete for top lottery but not good enough to challenge for top spot either through FA/trade

yes, it is very painful to have to accept this but it is our reality.

as for Fields, that's a problem for 3 years from now. The good thing about it is that it's a balloon payment in a league that will be dieing for expiring contracts every year to avoid future luxury tax problems. the Raps won't have luxury tax problems for at least 3-5 years and that's if they get lucky and sign a really good player. (which if you read your original post is not likely but would be a wonderful problem to have)

best case - he plays to a 19M contract. Worst case - his 9M salary gets dangled to other teams in his 3rd year that want future cap relief.

i think it's low risk/low reward type of gamble for a team with little chance of using that cap space extremely well. If we were the Lakers/Bulls/Knicks, I would be throwing a tantrum and vowing never to attend another game. But we are who we are and this is about as silver as it gets.

[Simitar]

I love the creative part of making the offer but I am confused how they could include a restricted free agent as part of any deal.

If he currently doesn't have a deal then how can you trade him? and how does he have any value in a trade if he doesn't have a contract? Is there a difference between "matching" an offer sheet and signing him outright? were they able to sign and trade him... I thought they got rid of that in the new cba.

Sign and trades are still fine - which is what NY hoped to do with Fields. But if an RFA signs an offer sheet with another team and you match, you can not use that player to complete a sign and trade. You can still trade the player in 3 months like other free agents (but not without his permission for 1 year, and never to the team that signed him to the offer sheet no matter what).

[T Dot O Dot]

The years are being misreported as well

we can spread it out because of our capspace : 6.66 x 3 years

the knicks can only use their MLE which means they'd have to go 5, 5 & 10 in order to match

a backloaded 3rd year wouldn't have made a difference, it's the fact that NY cant sign & trade him that creates the cockblock

[T Dot O Dot]

reading the realGM knicks board and their thoughts are the same as many raptor fans :

upside is Fields plays the way he did pre-Melo with the ball moving. The one thing you cant knock Bargnani for is holding the ball... and he is excellent offensively. He either puts the ball up, goes to the hoop, upfakes & goes or keeps it moving... add Nash and there could be plenty of ball to go around... in that case he'll be worth it

downside is that he steals our money and plays like the 11th man he currently is

I'd love to see the pre/post-melo statistical splits on Fields

[Bklyn]

His rookie year he was looking like a stud. He lead all rookie guards in boards and was like 3 or 4 in the whole L (for guards). He was easily a Top 5 Rookie the first 60 games of his rookie season.

He has played like a different dude with Melo, but I think he is a still a baller.

[T Dot O Dot]

Jeremy Lin has signed an offer sheet with the Rockets

[Bklyn]

The ink won't even dry on that one.

[T Dot O Dot]

the Lin offer sheet Tweet seems to be from a suspect source (tweeted by the score)

this one is more valid :

i ‏@WojYahooNBA

Deron Williams has reached agreement on a 5 year, $100 million extension with Brooklyn, a league source tells Y! Sports.

[T Dot O Dot]

Nash sweepstakes is officially down to Dallas & Toronto

Lin will still meet with Houston

[T Dot O Dot]

Man,

I swear, the Knicks might just be better off letting Landry & Lin go, let Toronto sign Nash & roll with Baron and Iman Shumpert

[sotola]

Nash sweepstakes is officially down to Dallas & Toronto

I wonder if Nash would let some of Cuban's comments go and head back to Dallas though. Cuban basically flat out said he wasn't going to give him that kind of money (ie. the Phoenix offer) because he was getting old and was injury prone. and that was when Cuban was throwing around money foolishly. That had to be a major slap in the face to Nash. and I am pretty sure that Nash hasn't gotten any younger since Cuban said that.

and when you look at the Mavs line up next year.... is it that much better than the Raps? I honestly think Casey, with Nash, could get the Raps to a comparable record. Neither organization is going to be a threat to win it.

2nd week of July should be interesting.

[Bklyn]

Uhhhhh, the Mavs have Dirk. Because of that, then I would say yes, the Mavs are much better than the Raps.

Dot

Is Baron going to be able to come back next year? His injury looked worse than Rose's and he's out until April, at least.

[yossarian1234]

After all shit the team has gone through with Ross and Fields, still no word from Nash.

Somehow, I'm thinking we are not his first, second, or even third choice and he's just waiting for some team to come and save the day so he can say NO to Raptors nicely so he doesn't lose any fans here in Canada.

Then it's really gonna all blow up in Colangelo's face. All we have to show for this fiasco are two mediocre swings... a rookie with limited handles and upside who only someone like Nash could turn into serviceable on offense and a vastly overpaid wing who's not really any better than the players we have that are cheaper. Much cheaper in some cases.

[yossarian1234]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/22 ... Steve_Nash

So apparently Knicks are in the lead and we probably never had a chance. Now the franchise suffers through yet another embarassment of only having an overpaid deadweight to show for all the fiasco. (I say deadweight cause I can say with confidence that the wings we already had are much cheaper and not all that bad compared to Fields) Not to mention the Araujo type draft pick that could come back and haunt them for years that was supposedly made with Nash in mind.

Fucking great.

The only consolation is that Colangelo might be gone after the season sooner rather than later. Really, this offseason has shown me he's not the man for the job and he needs to be gone. I was starting to accept the reality this may not happen for several years and we'll have to go through slow, painful process of watching the inevitable fall. But now with all of this, may actually force the action. Which will be greater short term pain but may turn out better in the long run.

[T Dot O Dot]

hhhhmmmmmmmmm......

I know this may sound bush league, but I wonder if Colangelo can get a roundtable discussion with PHX & NYK, get PHX to offer Fields the 3 year deal and sign & trade for Nash

remove ourselves from the process, let Houston overpay for Lin, let Dallas overpay Dragic, let Phoenix overpay Fields & NYK overpay Nash and just let Jose expire, or go after Lowery.

[T Dot O Dot]

newsday reporting that we may make another move in order to increase our offer to Nash

unbelieveable, he doesnt want to be here, eff him I say, he's not even from Toronto

Yoss.... you may get your wish sooner than expected, BC should be fired if he does anything of the sort

[yossarian1234]

He's getting desperate. He can see his own job and even his reputation now on the line and the best case scenario he can think of is to sign Nash at whatever the cost and hope for the best and pray everyone forgives and forgets if this team somehow makes the playoffs. He doesn't realize Nash is already gone and getting Fields to agree on the offer sheet might have backfired cause it looks like you are strong-arming Nash to force his decision.

It's either that or get fired.

The best scenario for this team at the moment is to blow up the whole team save Valanciunas. Accumulate cap space flexibility/draft picks as much as possible then go for the best lotto pick you can for next several years and hope you can put the right pieces around Valanciunas, enough to compete with your own assets where you'd only need outside resources to fill in role players at positions of need. I guess that's the OKC model. I say this because whatever Raptors try to do, it's futile with the current set of players. The sooner they admit this, the better.

The best scenario under his circumstances, stop getting desperate for Nash, someone who'll go to another team one way or another. Claim temporary insanity, rescind the offer to Fields (your rep is shot to hell anyway so what's another dent?) and go after Dragic/Lin and whatever other decent, young FA's you can get your hands on in 3/4 year deal and hope for the best outcome. Again, maybe make the playoffs and people will forgive and forget enough to give him another chance.

[yossarian1234]

Of course, as I type my own best case scenario, I realize nobody has the guts or will to see it through and thus is unrealistic, hence the accepted reality of mediocrity.

As for Colangelo, it'd also help greatly if he'd start consolidating some of these mediocre assets to upgrade. You may have to give up more than you are going to get but that's reality and this is getting ridiculous, the amount of mediocre talent that overlap and eat into each other's minutes.