Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Professor Tiger]

Great video of "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald." It's going on my ipod immediately.

[Jungle Rat]

Can't wait for the first "Wreck of Romney" parody

[GBJs]

You'll notice I won't disagree with any of that. I agree we had been funding and covering. Which is why I said death for profit is bullshit. Or did you not want to quote that part. I'll tell ya what....you let me know which facts are relevant. Then no one will argue politics!

I guess I missed that... my bad, and my apology for the uncalled for insult. Below is your entire post, I must have missed it. Did you post it elsewhere?

This is the PNN, and I'm used to getting responses like the ignorant bullshit Prof Dumb Fuck writes.

You did say that we were already at war, how do you believe the issues you mentioned should have been addressed?

I don't post very often on this forum because arguing politics is usually futile. But I've got to call bullshit on that one.

Desert Storm should have been begun YEARS before. Because if you don't believe we were at war, you are absolutely, naive. The early 1980s attack on a Marine barracks, Embassy bombings attack on the USS Cole etc... are all things which should have been addressed.

We were already at war. It was simply now done by some of our rules.

Do I believe the war was necessary? Yes. Was it done properly? Fuck no. Go to war, go to win, go to come home.

Absolutely the last time we fought a war to win was WWII. Korea, Viet Nam, both of the Gulf wars were more about profit than winning. And for that, there is no reason for loss of life.

I posted it right there in the bold...

How do I think they should have been addressed? I'm all about blowin shit up when those type of things happen, militarily significant installations. I do not believe in the equal retribution thing. There is only a couple of problems with that. The governments of those nations hide their militarily significant installations in hospitals, mosques, and schools. Therefore if I target civilians, damn. Also, most of the governments of those nations aren't the ones who run the nation. Do you really believe Pakistan's government is in control? Fuck no. Try ole' buddy Al.

So it's not a war in a traditional sense. In our society, you're either military, or civilian. Well, ole buddy Al doesn't HAVE a military. They're all civilian. So I guess I'm always targeting a civilian...who likes to kill people they don't like. And you can bet your ass they don't like Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Church of God, Church of Christ, a non-denominational church, or an Atheist. They don't like Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians. They don't like a Republic, a Democracy, Autocratic or Socialist. Essentially, they don't like Americans or liberals who live here. (Sorry, couldn't resist being a little bit of a shit head)

[10ac]

Praise Allah for collateral damage.

[Toemeesleather]

Two months ago, James Lovelock, the godfather of global warming, gave a startling interview to msnbc.com in which he acknowledged he had been unduly “alarmist” about climate change.

The implications were extraordinary.

Lovelock is a world-renowned scientist and environmentalist whose Gaia theory — that the Earth operates as a single, living organism — has had a profound impact on the development of global warming theory.

Unlike many “environmentalists,” who have degrees in political science, Lovelock, until his recent retirement at age 92, was a much-honoured working scientist and academic.

His inventions have been used by NASA, among many other scientific organizations.

Lovelock’s invention of the electron capture detector in 1957 first enabled scientists to measure CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons) and other pollutants in the atmosphere, leading, in many ways, to the birth of the modern environmental movement.

Having observed that global temperatures since the turn of the millennium have not gone up in the way computer-based climate models predicted, Lovelock acknowledged, “the problem is we don’t know what the climate is doing. We thought we knew 20 years ago.” Now, Lovelock has given a follow-up interview to the UK’s Guardian newspaper in which he delivers more bombshells sure to anger the global green movement, which for years worshipped his Gaia theory and apocalyptic predictions that billions would die from man-made climate change by the end of this century.

Lovelock still believes anthropogenic global warming is occurring and that mankind must lower its greenhouse gas emissions, but says it’s now clear the doomsday predictions, including his own (and Al Gore’s) were incorrect.

He responds to attacks on his revised views by noting that, unlike many climate scientists who fear a loss of government funding if they admit error, as a freelance scientist, he’s never been afraid to revise his theories in the face of new evidence. Indeed, that’s how science advances.

Among his observations to the Guardian:

(1) A long-time supporter of nuclear power as a way to lower greenhouse gas emissions, which has made him unpopular with environmentalists, Lovelock has now come out in favour of natural gas fracking (which environmentalists also oppose), as a low-polluting alternative to coal.

As Lovelock observes, “Gas is almost a give-away in the U.S. at the moment. They’ve gone for fracking in a big way. This is what makes me very cross with the greens for trying to knock it … Let’s be pragmatic and sensible and get Britain to switch everything to methane. We should be going mad on it.” (Kandeh Yumkella, co-head of a major United Nations program on sustainable energy, made similar arguments last week at a UN environmental conference in Rio de Janeiro, advocating the development of conventional and unconventional natural gas resources as a way to reduce deforestation and save millions of lives in the Third World.)

(2) Lovelock blasted greens for treating global warming like a religion.

“It just so happens that the green religion is now taking over from the Christian religion,” Lovelock observed. “I don’t think people have noticed that, but it’s got all the sort of terms that religions use … The greens use guilt. That just shows how religious greens are. You can’t win people round by saying they are guilty for putting (carbon dioxide) in the air.”

(3) Lovelock mocks the idea modern economies can be powered by wind turbines.

As he puts it, “so-called ‘sustainable development’ … is meaningless drivel … We rushed into renewable energy without any thought. The schemes are largely hopelessly inefficient and unpleasant. I personally can’t stand windmills at any price.”

(4) Finally, about claims “the science is settled” on global warming: “One thing that being a scientist has taught me is that you can never be certain about anything. You never know the truth. You can only approach it and hope to get a bit nearer to it each time. You iterate towards the truth. You don’t know it.”

[hedge]

AA's bowdlerization of WotEF: Excellent

10ac and Tiger's weak, lazy responses (quoting direct lines and posting a video): Awful...

[Op Ed]

RT = 9:1

Is 9:1 the US media... or the world media?

And where does Telesur fit in?

[Op Ed]

How do I think they should have been addressed? I'm all about blowin shit up when those type of things happen, militarily significant installations. I do not believe in the equal retribution thing. There is only a couple of problems with that. The governments of those nations hide their militarily significant installations in hospitals, mosques, and schools. Therefore if I target civilians, damn. Also, most of the governments of those nations aren't the ones who run the nation. Do you really believe Pakistan's government is in control? Fuck no. Try ole' buddy Al.

So it's not a war in a traditional sense. In our society, you're either military, or civilian. Well, ole buddy Al doesn't HAVE a military. They're all civilian. So I guess I'm always targeting a civilian...who likes to kill people they don't like. And you can bet your ass they don't like Baptist, Presbyterian, Methodist, Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Church of God, Church of Christ, a non-denominational church, or an Atheist. They don't like Democrats, Republicans or Libertarians. They don't like a Republic, a Democracy, Autocratic or Socialist. Essentially, they don't like Americans or liberals who live here. (Sorry, couldn't resist being a little bit of a shit head)

I am part of the US WMD program, so I believe in blowing shit up too. But I only support blowing it up and killin' people when our national security is threatened. It is unfortunate, but the American taxpayers are funding wars for corporate profits that are draining the wealth of the middle class and enriching a select few. And it also bothers me greatly that we are killing civilians who are fighting for their own right of self determination.

Regarding Al Qa'eda, they are a non-national militia. They are not a civilian fighting force. Unfortunately we are finding and arming Al-Q in Syria, and had been in Libya. We are very hypocrital in our war on terror, and our war on drugs. Unfortunately most Americans are stupid and ignorant, and they buy whatever they are told. Just like Bush's invasion of Iraq, and Obama's "good war" in Afghanistan.

[GBJs]

See, we aren't too far off. I absolutely disagree with corporate profit as a reason for war. I know people and companies make lots of money via R and D, and getting the best weps possible to our military. But that and oil etc... is no reason for war. That's a reason for R and D.

AFA killing people fighting for their own self determination, it bothers me also. For goodness sake, I have a feeling Israel can handle most anything thrown at them. I can agree with kicking Saddam's ass out of Kuwait, and it was past time to do a little spear chunking after 9/11. But damn it to hell, go to win, and go to get home!

[Jungle Rat]

What would you do about Syria? Let it play out because it's none of our business or tell Russia & China to fuck off & go in there and stop it?

[GBJs]

While I understand the term "non national militia" doesn't that mean its without the support of the nation's gov.? At least outward support. To me, that means we are targeting civilians. If these militia piles people into mosques and schools and hospitals, often at threat of life, and said gov does nothing, then lies saying they knew nothing, well, there is gonna be collateral damage.

[Op Ed]

See, we aren't too far off. I absolutely disagree with corporate profit as a reason for war. I know people and companies make lots of money via R and D, and getting the best weps possible to our military. But that and oil etc... is no reason for war. That's a reason for R and D.

AFA killing people fighting for their own self determination, it bothers me also. For goodness sake, I have a feeling Israel can handle most anything thrown at them. I can agree with kicking Saddam's ass out of Kuwait, and it was past time to do a little spear chunking after 9/11. But damn it to hell, go to win, and go to get home!

I can see some reasons for remaining in Afghanistan, but that does not mean that we need to occupy the entire country. I'd like to see a "Canal Zone" type leasing of bases, with a network of roads we protect. We do need central Asian bases for land-based ABM sites, and there are rogue elements in that area that may be able to fire nukes. That includes the crackpots in Pakistan (ref: Kargil). Any nation with "Stan" in its name is a potential threat. There are also mineral riches in Afghanistan, and we need to make sure that some of them head our way. Not to loot them, but to assure China does not get a monopoly. I would like to see us make peace with Iran, and let Israel fund its own defense.

[Op Ed]

While I understand the term "non national militia" doesn't that mean its without the support of the nation's gov.? At least outward support. To me, that means we are targeting civilians. If these militia piles people into mosques and schools and hospitals, often at threat of life, and said gov does nothing, then lies saying they knew nothing, well, there is gonna be collateral damage.

All national armed forces and non-national militias are inbred with support from other nations. The US is at the top of the food chain, and China, Russia and India are minor tops in that they for the most part are not dependent on the US.

If BRIC+Turkey ever got its collective self together, we would be challenged in Asia. But that won't happen.

[Jungle Rat]

You won't see peace with Iran in this lifetime.

[GBJs]

Prepare to be shocked...

I agree with both of you. There is no reason for national occupation, especially with our military capabilities.

Rat, I'm a little remiss. I haven't been able to keep up with the Syrian issues to form a decent opinion. Working 10-12 hours a day will do that. ...plus the 9:1 media only tells us what O-shit wants us to hear... OK, I couldn't resist...

[Jungle Rat]

Just asking. Don't know what Id do either yet but Im leaning towards telling Russia & China to fuck off. It's not defending your country when you kill thousands of your people because they want change & civil rights and stuff.

[hedge]

The founding fathers as well as the first American citizens were highly suspicious of a standing military. They feared that if the government established a standing military, they could use it against the citizens, which is mainly why we have the second amendment, with its clear mention of a militia being the primary reason why citizens should be allowed to keep and bear arms. If the founders could see the military industrial complex that is the main feature of our government today, they'd be rolling over in their graves...

[Jungle Rat]

The cops have surrounded your house again I see

[10ac]

A nice mushroom cloud billowing out over the Mideast is a bad thing?

[GBJs]

The founding fathers as well as the first American citizens were highly suspicious of a standing military. They feared that if the government established a standing military, they could use it against the citizens, which is mainly why we have the second amendment, with its clear mention of a militia being the primary reason why citizens should be allowed to keep and bear arms. If the founders could see the military industrial complex that is the main feature of our government today, they'd be rolling over in their graves...

And, the reason our military can NOT be used against citizenry. ...now the BATF...that's another issure...

A nice mushroom cloud billowing out over the Mideast is a bad thing?

There's enough sand to have glass parking lots.