Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Big Orange Junky]

"So these employers will still have to provide the health insurance, and the health insurance must cover the contraception and abortifacients."

So there it is. Finally someone bringing out that they are forcing the church to pay for abortions.

All any of us opposed to this measure have been saying is that the gubment was forcing religion to violate said tennants of their religion.

They should also mandate the Global Warming religion fund fossil fuel research for BP as well.

Nobody is saying birth control is right or wrong. That's neither here nor there. The whole point is using the strong arm of the gubment to force citizens to violate their religion by funding things they are opposed to.

[bluetick]

" a good first step,"


"Very pleased,"

[Big Orange Junky]

" a good first step,"


"Very pleased,"

I'm sure some of the people were "very pleased" at the "good first steps" that people made during slavery as well but it didn't make it right.

Right is right, wrong is wrong.

Oprama is just flat out wrong. It's a religions right not to support contraception regardless of how I or anyone else feels about contraception. It's wrong for the gubment to force religious orgs to pay for it.

[Professor Tiger]

Tell ya what. You don't tell me how to live my life and I won't tell you how to live yours. Deal?

Yeah. The pro-choice people are known for saying, "Get the government out of my bedroom and out of my womb!" and "A woman has a right over her own body!" Okay. We're saying, "Get the government out of my church's schools and hospitals" and "A church has a right over its own insurance plans!"

Liberals are libertarians when it comes to birth control and abortion as applied to individuals, but totalitarian fascists when it comes to birth control and abortion as applied to religious organizations.

[Professor Tiger]

sex changes, President Rubio and chasity belts. Muslims having to buy pork.

Congratulations. You seem to have accurately detected the absurdity of the federal government forcing Muslim schools to serve pork and forcing NARAL to provide chastity belts. I applaud you for acknowledging the ridiculousness of the government forcing the groups that liberals love - e.g. Muslims and feminists - to pay for things they consider abominations - e.g pork, chastity belts. You are halfway to Enlightenment. Now, please explain why it would be absurd to force Muslims and feminists to pay for things that they abhor (and it would be), but perfectly fine to force the Catholic Church to pay for things that they abhor - i.e birth control, abortifacients?

[Hacksaw]

As long as Dear Leader says it's for our own good, then who are we to question Him?

[bluetick]

Damn. I was this close to giving Hack and some other righties kudos for sitting this nonsense out.

[bluetick]

sex changes, President Rubio and chasity belts. Muslims having to buy pork.

Congratulations. You seem to have accurately detected the absurdity of the federal government forcing Muslim schools to serve pork and forcing NARAL to provide chastity belts. I applaud you for acknowledging the ridiculousness of the government forcing the groups that liberals love - e.g. Muslims and feminists - to pay for things they consider abominations - e.g pork, chastity belts. You are halfway to Enlightenment. Now, please explain why it would be absurd to force Muslims and feminists to pay for things that they abhor (and it would be), but perfectly fine to force the Catholic Church to pay for things that they abhor - i.e birth control, abortifacients?

Nolan and the hierarchy are on board with it now, prof. This won't be a story next week.

[Hacksaw]

Damn. I was this close to giving Hack and some other righties kudos for sitting this nonsense out.

Sorry to disappoint you. I guess you can just add me to your list of thought criminals.

[bluetick]

I guess you can just add me to your list of thought criminals.

I don't know what that means, but it doesn't sound good.

If somebody has the wherewithall to make a pnn list of proud Americans with strong family values and a good work ethic, I have no doubt you'll be on it.

[Professor Tiger]

Nolan and the hierarchy are on board with it now, prof.

According to the current webpage of the Catholic News Service: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/storie ... 200572.htm

Cardinal-designate Timothy M. Dolan of New York, president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, called the revision "a step in the right direction" but said the conference was reserving judgment until all the details of the new policy were made public.

That doesn't sound like they are exactly on board with it.

But I agree that it won't be a news story in a week. Obama's "compromise" will effectively defuse the story. It gives the appearance that Catholic schools and hospitals won't have to pay for free contraception and abortifacients. The insurance companies will pay for it instead.

Most people won't recognize the compromise for the shell game it is. Few will realize that those insurance companies will not just swallow those increased costs. The insurance companies will just pass those increased costs along to their customers in the form of higher premiums. And their customer is the Catholic Church, which will pay either way.

[Owlman]

Most people won't recognize the compromise for the shell game it is. Few will realize that those insurance companies will not just swallow those increased costs

The Catholic Bishops are not in support of it, while Catholic Charities and Catholic Health Services support it. Not a surprise, really. Catholic Bishops reflect dogma while Catholic Charities and CHS are more directly effected by the policy. If the argument story is about religious freedom, more will be against policy. If the narrative is about birth control, the vast majority will support the policy. I suspect for those who minds could actually be changed (before this issue ever came forward), more leaned towards the former category, but after the compromise, more lean towards the latter.

We'll see, but I suspect in the long run, this will at best rile up a small percentage of the base of both of both parties but in the long run won't mean much, although if there is a big push by the Republicans to change this, it could get become bigger.

[Professor Tiger]

As a pure political calculation, it makes sense for Obama to use his regulatory power to throw a bone to a major constituency of his party. The fact that he hosed the Catholics in the process will delight the feminists even more than the free goodies. This is an election year, and Obama is going to make sure all the components of his base are energized and 100% behind him.

That is smarter than what's going on the Republican party, where the Establishment is doing everything they can to frustrate and anger the base. Usually the Republicans are the disciplined, well-organized machine, while Democrats are the three ring circus. This year it's the other way around.

Four more years.

[sardis]

I guess the evangelicals will have to go it alone. That's ok, the Catholics never have been a strong conservative force anyway. They are weak and you can see why. How'd you like to follow instructions from these clowns.

http://news.yahoo.com/monsignors-mutiny ... 24856.html

[sardis]

"Mandating Blue Cross Aetna Cigna United Healthcare etc to eliminate copays for selected preventive measures in the area of women's reproductive health doesn't run afoul of the First Amendment."

It is if it's against someone's religion to pay for it.

[Jungle Rat]

I just peed blue!

[Owlman]

"Mandating Blue Cross Aetna Cigna United Healthcare etc to eliminate copays for selected preventive measures in the area of women's reproductive health doesn't run afoul of the First Amendment."

It is if it's against someone's religion to pay for it.

Not once those religions go out into the commercial marketplace

[Toemeesleather]

It ain't just religion they're coming after....nobody dislikes smoking more than me, but even I think we went too far in 1998 just like now....you were warned back during Prez Slick.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Ma ... _Agreement

[bluetick]

As sardis points out, since the papists have cleared out, it's now down to the tongue-speakers and snake handlers to make something happen. Whereas it looks like mainstream America has turned it's attention towards Adele.

"Mandating Blue Cross Aetna Cigna United Healthcare etc to eliminate copays for selected preventive measures in the area of women's reproductive health doesn't run afoul of the First Amendment."

It is if it's against someone's religion to pay for it.

The health insurers don't have a religion. Outside of worshipping the almighty dollar, of course.

[puterbac]

Maybe they will just have to cut the commissions of the those that sell the policies to cover the increased cost of mandates?

I'm sure tick is fine with that.