Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Jungle Rat]

Who cares?

[bluetick]

Keep up the good fight hack.

I want a safety net for those that truly cannot help themselves and also for those who are able but down their "luck" but they need to be willing to help themselves and not just look at it as if they are owed for doing nothing.

How PT and tick equate that to wanting people to starve is beyond me, but whatever.

A safety net is a slippery slope, puter. A little aid begets more aid, and then more. At some point you gotta stop being an enabler and cut'em off. It's hard to believe people choose poverty in order to get food stamps or AFDC checks - but they do. And most of them are in better shape than you and me put together...you ever spend an evening down at KARM? Many of them look like they got lost on their way to L.A. Fitness.

sonsabitches

[bluetick]

The U.S. House will likely pass a $180 billion GOP bill tying a payroll tax cut and more jobless benefits to a divisive oil pipeline, Speaker John Boehner said.

"The House will vote on the Middle Class Tax Relief and Job Creation Act -- a bill that should pass with bipartisan support," Boehner, R-Ohio, said Monday, one day ahead of the expected vote.

Rep. Dan Boren, D-Okla., crossed party lines Monday and said he would vote "yes" on the GOP bill, which links the tax-cut extension to a host of other measures -- including a provision that would speed up a decision by the Obama administration on the Keystone XL oil sands pipeline system to transport synthetic crude oil and diluted asphalt, tar and other road- and roof-surfacing materials to the Gulf Coast from Alberta, Canada -- a project the White House has sought to delay.




Tee-hee, now the Dims can be against tax cuts....

The original bill was the Middle Class Tax Relief part...the tax-cut provision itself. Rs want it, supposedly, but only if they can play a game of "chicken" with dems by adding a bunch of stuff to it.

surprisingly, overturning Roe v Wade and Paul Ryan's health plan weren't part of the "host of other measures"

[Hacksaw]

Re the stealth drone, I think you guys are overlooking an obvious -- and, frankly, much more logical -- explanation...Obama wanted Iran to have it.

Discuss.

[bluetick]

We still haven't decided where oprama was borned yet.

or whether OBL really is dead

[bluetick]

And I suppose we did settle the issue of whether it's in the pnner's best interest financially to stop wasting money on the poor.
(It IS)

although I'm still a little perplexed as to how it also helps the poor...get out of poorishness

[sardis]

Why does tick hate energy jobs?

[bluetick]

I love energy jobs, sardis. I love puppies, too - but neither has anything remotely to do with the payroll tax break extension...or how to replace the lost revenue that extending the tax break entails.

Poor old Mitch McConnell presented his own version of the bill that would have extended the payroll tax break last Thursday - boldly predicting it would pass - and got shot down by his own party.

[Professor Tiger]

Not that $200 billion is chump change. That's the approximate annual amount being spent right now for food stamps and unemployment, combined.

Okay, Hack: of that $200 billion spent on food stamps and unemployment combined, how much do you think is paid to people who could work, but choose not to?

We've gone over this before. Obviously, I have no way of knowing. Would you allow that there are at least some who could? Because if you would, then it's just a matter of degree. I wouldn't be surprised if the number is significant. But we'll never know. That's sort of the point. As we've seen in this discussion, we've created a system where anyone who dares to ask the question is immediately attacked and villified. And those doing the attacking get to feel so superior and good. Now, if only the system was really helping the poor get out of poverty, you might even have a right to feel that way. But it's not. It's wasting money and keeping people poor.

Incidentally, the $200 billion is only part of the overall $700+ billion in means-tested entitlements spent this year. We can't have a rational discussion about any of it, naturally.

Hack, let the record show that:

1. You have refused to even venture a guess as to how much of the $200 billion spent on unemployment insurance and food stamps is wasted on those who could work, but refuse to do so out of laziness. This is certainly understandable. You know (because I told you I would) that, whatever number or percentage of that $200 billion that you estimate is wasted by the lazy, I would provide plenty of examples of other federal government programs that waste far more money, but you never complain about.

2. For all your complaining about us "not having a rational discussion about any of it," I have tried to engage you in a rational discussion about it. I provided facts and figures about how many unemployed people there are, how much they are receiving in food stamps and unemployment payments, and how much these programs cost the tax payer. I asked you a very simple question: about how much money from these programs you consider wasted. You have, thus far, refused to engage in rational discussion with me. Rather, you flee from the field of rational discussion by claiming a priori that we can't have a rational discussion.

If you ever change your mind, and decide to provide facts, figures, or even reason, to support your position that food stamps and unemployment insurance are bad programs that immorally spend too much money on lazy welfare queens, then let me know. Until then, just continue to bitch and moan.

[AugustWest]

America is opening up a new warfront and it’s in your own backyard. It’s in your neighbor’s house, it’s three states over and it’s on the other side of the Mississippi.

That’s what a new legislation could lead to and the consequences are dire and constitutionally damning.

The United States Senate is set to vote this week on a bill that would categorize the entire USA as a “battlefield,” allowing law enforcement duties to be dished out by the American Military, who in turn could detain any US citizen as a war criminal — even coming into their own homes to issue arrests.

The National Defense Authorization Act regularly comes before Congress for changes and additions, but the latest provision, S. 1867, proves to be the most powerful one yet in raping constitutional freedoms from Americans. Move over, Patriot Act. Should S. 1867 pass, lawmakers could conjure the text to keep even regular citizens detained indefinitely by their own military.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a supporter of the bill, has explicitly stated that the passing of S. 1867 would “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield” and could lead to the detention of citizens without charge or trial, writes Chris Anders of the American Civil Liberties Union’s Washington office.

Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H) sits on the same side of the aisle and agrees wholeheartedly. “America is part of the battlefield,” says the lawmaker.

http://rt.com/usa/news/senate-mccain-ba ... raham-429/

[AugustWest]

just in case you dont know you can go to https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions and sign petitions etc in (i'm sure a vain) attempt to influence policy or at least let the scumbags in charge know how you feel.

[Hacksaw]

Prof,

I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree that wasting money and discouraging generations of Americans from being independent and successful is worth discussing, unless I can somehow pull a magic number out of my ass.

I know you think you are actually making a point. And, in a way, you are. It's just not the point you think you're making.

[Toemeesleather]

Linking state corruption w/the Prez obviously went out of favor starting in Jan. 2009....of course the national 6 o'clock news and the first half hour of the Today show have morphed into something like "Entertainment Tonight Lite." I believe Rezko also got some premium shower time also.


Apparently, it was not enough. Mr. Blagojevich, a Democrat who won two terms in the governor’s office, was sentenced to 14 years in prison on his 18 corruption convictions, counts that include trying to sell or trade the Senate seat that became vacant when President Obama went to the White House.

[bluetick]

just in case you dont know you can go to https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions and sign petitions etc in (i'm sure a vain) attempt to influence policy or at least let the scumbags in charge know how you feel.

Thanks Auggie.

[sardis]

They must have went through Michelle Bachman's husband's program...

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t2#/vi ... others.cbc

[Toemeesleather]

Obammer's Nobel Prize and now this....makes perfect sense...


"The Protester" has been named Time's "Person of the Year" for 2011.

[puterbac]

I love energy jobs, sardis. I love puppies, too - but neither has anything remotely to do with the payroll tax break extension...or how to replace the lost revenue that extending the tax break entails.

Poor old Mitch McConnell presented his own version of the bill that would have extended the payroll tax break last Thursday - boldly predicting it would pass - and got shot down by his own party.

The problem is the the payroll tax cut negatively affects SS funds and isn't a tax cut that is going to help grow the economy.

Repeal Oprama care and you eliminate a HUGE amount of uncertainty, make the W cuts permanent so people and biz can plan more than a fucking year in advance, change the biz taxes to be more favorable than other nations, and make it attractive to bring money back to the USA instead of keeping it overseas.

Do those things then get the fuck out of the way before you get steamrolled by economic tidal wave that would be coming our way.

Govt should be what it was intended to be which is a referee and not a judge. Enforce the rules, but don't pick winners and losers,

[Hacksaw]

You're making way too much sense, puter.

[Owlman]

Repeal Oprama care and you eliminate a HUGE amount of uncertainty

Can someone explain what the uncertainty is with PPACA?

[sardis]

The uncertainty of whether it will be repealed or not...Ha!


Seriously, I think one uncertainty is the unknown of how many employers will opt out of private insurance and just pay "the penalty". No one really can predict the cost to the government of providing for thes employees.