Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Hacksaw]

Auggie,

I think that you are seriously ignoring (or at least underestimating) the effect of the group dynamic in a situation like this. We're not talking about one or two people who refuse to move off of a path. If the cops don't move them, then they are just going to continue to break more laws until they get a reaction. Blocking the path is against the law. They know that and they are doing it to get a reaction. You might think it's a relatively harmless violation of the law -- and I would agree with you. But the cops don't have the luxury of ignoring harmless violations of the law in a situation like this. Because pretty soon, they risk having the crowd (which already out-numbers them) turn into a mob. The cops have to draw the line somewhere and the line is the law. Protest within the law and you won't be bothered. Cross the line by breaking the law and the cops have to put a stop to it.

And, like it or not, pepper spray is ideal for this sort of situation. People act like they prefer to see cops wrestling to seperate groups of people like this who will undoubtedly resist being hand-cuffed and led away. And, seeing the police struggle, the other protesters are very likely to quickly take the place of anyone who is detained. How long are the cops supposed to wrestle with these people? And the police will be roundly criticized for letting the situation get out of hand, especially if someone manages to take one of their weapons in a struggle and someone ends up doing more damage than pepper spray ever could.

No, these folks were breaking the law and they were warned. And, just as importantly, they produced a video which conveniently left out that fact. And that means that, in addition to being smelly, stupid and annoying, they are also dishonest.

[AugustWest]

"We will let YOU leave if you let them go!"

so rather than attempt to leave they decided to escalate the situation by pepper spraying college students sitting on a sidewalk.

They wanted the pepperspray (or whtaever) to bring sympathy to their cause.

uhh, yeah and the cop walked right into it. if the cops leave in 30 minutes you have some smelly hippies sitting on a side walk with no one paying attention to them. and no one gets pepper sprayed.

Would you support them protesting in the street and blocking traffic? How about a highway or interstate?

surely you see the difference between an interstate and a sidewalk that can very easily walked around. either way I dont see the need to spray the kids in the face.

Randy Weaver's son (shot in the back) and unarmed wife were killed by the gubment in 1992, no one went to jail either, and there was less uproar than Augusts' little rant above. Nothing personal, just a comment on the road we're currently on.

pretty sure there was a lot of discussion about Weaver, and Waco. and people should have gone to jail in both instances.

Government and big banks colluded in the biggest swindle in history and y'all want the people that are mad about it punished while not a single person responsible for a world wide financial collapse has even been fired.

[Hacksaw]

"if the cops leave in 30 minutes you have some smelly hippies sitting on a side walk with no one paying attention to them. and no one gets pepper sprayed."

You want the cops to just leave and let the protesters do whatever they want? Really?

[AugustWest]

They know that and they are doing it to get a reaction.

exactly. this is my point. why react at all. if the cops just leave, then the whole situation defuses. if the protesters decide to escalate, then the cops have a reason to use force and the protestors lose sympathy. for example if the cops in the video announce that they will not violate the crowds right to peacefully assemble and start to head to their buses, if they are attacked by the crowd, then the attackers deserve any beating they get. but dont tell me the cop had no choice but to spray those kids.

[AugustWest]

"if the cops leave in 30 minutes you have some smelly hippies sitting on a side walk with no one paying attention to them. and no one gets pepper sprayed."

You want the cops to just leave and let the protesters do whatever they want? Really?

why not? what were they doing that was so terrible?

[AlabamAlum]

The cops asked them to disperse. They told them where they could go to protest without a permit, but that they could not block entrances or walkways. They asked them to move. Nicely even. After they refused, the LT went to everyone blocking the way and explained what would happen. He did this calmly and nicely. While he was going this, the students were yelling about not letting the cops leave.

The cops acted reasonably and with restraint.


Anyway, Augie, we'll never see eye-to-eye on this. Discussion will not bear fruit.

[Hacksaw]

I can't believe I'm actually having to explain this, but the problem is that the cops will catch hell (and rightfully so) for failing to protect people and property if the crowd turns into a mob -- which it was well on it's way to doing even with a police presence on-hand. It's beyond unrealistic, IMO, to expect that the police could just remove themselves from the area and the crowd was going to be able to control themselves.

[AugustWest]

Anyway, Augie, we'll never see eye-to-eye on this. Discussion will not bear fruit.

never expected it would. this is a message board after all. we had a cop come into the store today and I almost asked him to cover the difference between riot gear and normal dress but I didnt.

[AugustWest]

btw you never have told me what the problem was with Gottfried as a coach as opposed to a coach banging a co-ed.

[AugustWest]

but the problem is that the cops will catch hell (and rightfully so) for failing to protect people and property if the crowd turns into a mob

if the crowd turns into a mob on it's own, then let the cops crack all the heads they want. the cops shouldnt be part of the escalation. anyway as AA says this discussion will bear no fruit.

unless DSL chimes in. Zing!

[Hacksaw]

So the cops stay away until the crowd starts destroying property and people start getting hurt and then it's okay for the cops to move in? Got it.

I disagree.

[AugustWest]

I dont believe for a second that the crowd was going to damage anything if the cops arent there. they're on a college campus. are they going to set fire to the library? turn on the bunson burners? burn a couch?

[Owlman]

why not? what were they doing that was so terrible?

Sitting. THE ASSHOLES. How dare they sit on a sidewalk in the sun. Shame on them. You're missing the point Augie. Sitting on a sidewalk is dangerous. Why it's worse than; worse than a pool table. And you know what they lead to.

TROUBLE. TROUBLE in RIVER CITY!

[Owlman]

[youtube]qam1fbQmA_s[/youtube]

[Owlman]

okay this one:

[youtube]C0sSnl_PiE0[/youtube]

[billy bob bocephus]

fuck pepper spray...use 30.06

[10ac]

concur

[Owlman]

Death is too good for them. Waterboard them. That'll get them to talk.

[Professor Tiger]

Spray them with hot soapy water and play Reagan speeches over a really loud PA system 24/7.

They'll run back to their bedrooms in their parents' basements like scalded cats.

Then disinfect the whole area to get rid of the swarms of scabies they left behind.

[Jungle Rat]

I really pray Hack doesn't have any grandkids. Or any waffle houses nearby.