Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Hacksaw]

So predictable that it's actually not much of an accomplishment that you predicted it.

[Professor Tiger]

I predicted it, but deep down, I really didn't want to predict it. In fact, I was secretly opposed to predicting it. But BOJ dragged me into it, kicking a screaming. Therefore I deserve no credit at all. The credit should all be W's. He was the inspirational genius behind it all along.

[Hacksaw]

He didn't push anything through. The GOP Congress tried several times to push through the reform that Clinton ultimately signed. He was dragged, kicking and screaming. It took seeing the political writing on the wall before he reluctantly signed the bill. I don't care how long he talked about it. All that matters is the timeline of when he did something about it and who pushed it through.

Clinton talked about it in '92. The GOP took over the Congress in '95 and immediately began pushing welfare reform for real. Clinton eventually signed it in '96 (after kicking and screaming for a year-and-a-half). Sorry, but them's the facts.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Commen ... -was-right

BILL CLINTON WAS RIGHT
by Robert Rector, The Heritage Foundation

As a conservative analyst who spent much of the 1990s working against most of Bill Clinton's agenda -- including some aspects of his welfare reform proposals -- it pains me to say this.

Bill Clinton was right...

Good article...and interesting admissions from a Clinton foe. It's almost like he was speaking to one skeptic in particular..heh.

That is an interesting opinion piece. It doesn't bring any new facts to light that mitigate the facts I presented earlier. It doesn't contradict any of my points. In fact, the main point of the piece seems to be to show an example of how a pol can bring up a sensitive social issue in a way that makes it possible to have a productive discussion about it (which, I would point out, is not the same thing as actually doing something about it). I don't mind giving credit to Slick for that (I've already given him credit for signing the thing -- even if he was kicking and screaming when he did so). Of course, it's not exactly a big secret that liberal dems can get away with saying things that conservatives are not permitted to say. Hell, just look at Joe Biden.

Anyway, ol' Slick was so interested in tackling welfare reform that he waited until 4 years after he was elected POTUS to sign a bill. Two years of nothing while he had both houses of Congress controlled by his own party and almost two more years of kicking and screaming before the GOP Congress finally twisted his arm enough to get him to go along with it. Kudos.

[Hacksaw]

Prof,

See the last paragraph of my previous post. Nuff said.

[Professor Tiger]

"Bill Clinton was dragged kicking and screaming by the R's into signing welfare reform and balancing the federal budget, therefore he deserves no credit" = "Mike Price was never the coach at Alabama."

Both these statements are passionately believed by precisely one person on earth, and are endlessly amusing to the rest of us.

[AlabamAlum]

Refute with facts, prof. Your lame attempt at a comparison between the two is sad. Expected, but sad.

[Big Orange Junky]

"Bill Clinton was dragged kicking and screaming by the R's into signing welfare reform and balancing the federal budget, therefore he deserves no credit" = "Mike Price was never the coach at Alabama."

Both these statements are passionately believed by precisely one person on earth, and are endlessly amusing to the rest of us.

No actually Billary didn't want to sign the legislation he signed. Matter of fact I think he threatened to veto it and everything else and finally he was swayed by the fact that he didn't have the votes to keep it dead, and public opinion.

He didn't like it, not one bit and really he was dragged kicking and screaming until he signed it. That's an accurate statement IMO.

When it appeared to be a good thing then he started taking credit for it, but there's not much doubt that he didn't want to sign it. Thought it went "too far".

This is what I remember about it anyway. I don't ever remember him warming up to it before he signed it, only angst and frustration with it.


Prolly hard to prove either way but kicking and screaming is eaxactly how I would have put it too and is exactly the feeling I got about it every time I heard him talk about it before he finally caved and signed it.

[Hacksaw]

It's simple. He was POTUS for 4 years before he finally signed it. It makes no sense to say that it was his idea and that he pushed it through. If that was true, it wouldn't have taken him 4 years. The GOP Congress had to send it up to him 3 times. He vetoed it the first 2 times and the public opinion polls showed that he was viewed unfavorably for doing so. Finally, a few weeks before the election for his second term, he signed it.

And despite the fact that he was dragged, kicking and screaming, I gave him credit for it. And I still do.

But that's not good enough for the revisionists. They actually want to say, with a straight face, that he ram-rodded it through, as if against some imaginary opposition that didn't want it. It's laughable. The facts speak for themselves.

[bluetick]

But that's good enough for the revisionists. They actually say, with a straight face, that he ram-rodded it through, as if against some imaginary opposition that didn't want it. It's laughable.

In the interest of honest debate...something you opine about every so often...where did anybody say Clinton ram-rodded the welfare bill into existence. And never mind how you over-sold it with the "straight face" and "laughable"..

[bluetick]

Did I call this or what?

Obviously Cain isn't running a conventional campaign because he's never run for office before. But has anybody on his staff ever run a campaign before? The first law of managing a campaign is to vette anything that can come back to haunt the candidate. Did they even ask Cain the question...or did he lie or ignore it? How amaturish could they possibly be?

It's almost like he ran with no more expectations other than getting his name out and maybe selling some books. And then...amazingly...everybody else fell to the wayside. And now he's being held to a higher standard that he probably never imagined in his wildest dreams.

[sardis]

I don't think the public cares. I think they all already assume every black guy has sexually harassed at some point...

< waits for 'tick's aneurism...>

[sardis]

It's shit like this is why we have occupiers and tea partiers...I'm sure Corzine will be safe from jail time...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Regulator ... et=&ccode=

[bluetick]

I don't think the public cares. I think they all already assume every black guy has sexually harassed at some point...

< waits for 'tick's aneurism...>

Shee-it, man. Let them pussies assume all they want...around here we KNOW.

[10ac]

What is it with the coloreds and pupic hairs?

[Toemeesleather]

Tick don't abide the uppity coloreds.

[bluetick]

What is it with the coloreds and pupic hairs?

Axe toe. He's a well known Anita v Clarence scholar.

[Toemeesleather]

Not me, I'm a Shelby Steele fan.

[bluetick]

Aight then. Cain said on the Laura Ingraham radio show that his campaign "made a conscious decision" not to address the allegations until the story broke.

So much for getting ahead of the story at the outset of the campaign. "Hey, let's cross our fingers and hope nobody finds out about a, uh, sexual harassment settlement. Or two. And if it does come out, we'll let Herman give 6 different acccounts of what did or didn't happen...or how many were involved...and then confess to confusion because it happened so long ago. Even though he had several months to sharpen his memory concerning the details...knowing well ahead of time that somebody COULD find out. But hey, we DID cross our fingers..."

It's almost brilliant in it's comic absurdity, somehow. And the possibility of a media smear always plays well in the hustings. Who knows - his campaign may have screwed themselves right towards a nomination.

[Professor Tiger]

I heard that yesterday - the day AFTER the sexual harassment story broke - the Cain campaign raised more money over the internet than any other day. I'm not a big Cain fan, but I might chip in a few bucks. Everyone except liberals sympathizes with a high-tech lynching victim.

The liberals, by contrast, want to see that uppity darkie strung up. Like, yesterday. Liberals get enraged when one of their chattel start sassin' the white liberal Massuh.

[Hacksaw]

But that's good enough for the revisionists. They actually say, with a straight face, that he ram-rodded it through, as if against some imaginary opposition that didn't want it. It's laughable.

In the interest of honest debate...something you opine about every so often...where did anybody say Clinton ram-rodded the welfare bill into existence. And never mind how you over-sold it with the "straight face" and "laughable"..

Are we back-pedaling now? Or is that the white flag? On to Herman Cain and the sexual harrassment story. Kind of funny, considering we had just been talking about ol' Slick Willy. I wonder if the feminists will be as understanding with Cain as they were with Clinton.