Florida State Seminoles

[Jungle Rat]

Who is Cassidy Hutchinson and why is tomorrow going to be so much fun? Time to get past the Roe distraction from the Jan 6th hearings.

[hedge]

"If you don't agree with absolutely everything that Matt Walsh is saying here, then no, you most certainly do not care about kids."

I don't care about most adults either. Esp. you. Seriously, if you were murdered, I wouldn't care at all. I wouldn't necessarily be happy, but I wouldn't care. So take your "I care about kids" bullshit and shove it up your ass. We all know you're a liar (esp. to yourself). Nobody believes anything you say (except maybe yourself, but even that is questionable)...

[eCat]

I'm probably more willing to have stricter limits on abortion than many pro-choice folks, but who knows? Over 90% of abortions are performed in the first trimester, which seems fine to me. Just over 5% are performed b/w 14 weeks and 20 weeks. I have to believe that many of those cases involve some sort of complication for the mother or discovery that the fetus has some kind of issues (as a side note, do you think it's OK to abort a fetus that will develop into a Downs Syndrome child?). Of the remaining 1% of abortions that are performed after 20 weeks, I believe that most of them are due to complications, either risks to the mother's life or else the child will be stillborn or else severely deformed with no chance of any type of normal life.

Now then, does some malingering airhead just put it off until 18 weeks and then just decides she doesn't want it? I'm sure that happens, but even at 18 weeks, you're talking about a fetus that weighs 5 ounces (at 20 weeks it's 11 ounces). I'll admit that looking at pictures of the 18-20 week fetus, it does look like kinda like a baby, the head and body have formed somewhat and it makes me think why the fuck did you wait this long (in cases where there's nothing wrong with the fetus but the woman was just an idiot or just changed her mind or whatever). But again, I believe that cases like that are in the minority of what is already the vast minority of all abortions performed.

I do not believe that more than a handful of women carry a fetus for 5+ months and then just decide out of the blue, for no other reason than "Whoops, I changed my mind" to have an abortion. If they do, I think that's tragic and wrong, but to stop the other 99+% of women who get abortions based on a handful of dingbats isn't the answer...

again, that goes back to what is the standard that is acceptable as to when its considered a human life. But you have the my body, my choice people presenting it as if that isn't an option , that if they want to abort at 5 months for no other than, whoops, I changed my mind, they should have that right - and as long as they present it that way, there is going to be opposition to it, apparently alot of opposition to having that right. That extremism in their position has put all women at risk - you can blame the GOP or Christians but the idea that I want to be able to walk down to the corner abortion clinic and get an abortion any time that I want, and oh, if I can't afford it, I want government help - was never going to be a winner. Anyone with any sense realizes that, but their continued pursuit of that has put them in a situation now where some of them at least will have to hop on a plane and fly to another state, stay in a hotel and have the most sterile callous procedure, or choose for a back alley nightmare.

similar to the slippery slope issue of the guns, in the case of guns, they are saying lets ban assault rifles and save lives, but the other side knows that is a lie, they want all guns banned and this is just a foot in the door stance. With abortion, the pro choice people know they want all abortions banned so they fight for the most extreme option for it, complete choice.

I happen to believe there is a large number of people out there closer to how you and I think, that if its very early in the pregnancy when the fetus is still just a blob of nothing, no brain activity, no heartbeat, then abortion is just a medical procedure , but once its a human life then there should be some medical justification for it (and personally I would willingly accept no viable chance at life post birth, and would want my wife to abort for the sanity of both of us in that case). I'm not saying we agree but neither of us are absolutes in our positions on it.

My bottom line is abortion should never be a form of birth control, and responsible sex should be - and this is coming from a guy who married his second wife while she was pregnant. Abortion was not an option to us and I was 31 years old at the time, certainly in my more pro choice days, and my wife to this day is still very pro choice.

[Jungle Rat]

When does it become a "Human life"? How old is a fetus before it can survive on its own? I mean, yeah, preemies etc but how long without having tubes coming out if everywhere? Of course they can't survive at birth either on their own but what's the line? What is the line in the sand? Till that's figured out, Jesus freaks will get their way. It's ridiculous.

[Jungle Rat]

Anyhoo. Separation of church and state is being destroyed today. Sad.

[hedge]

"But you have the my body, my choice people presenting it as if that isn't an option , that if they want to abort at 5 months for no other than, whoops, I changed my mind, they should have that right"

But again I say, having a right to do something and actually doing it are very different things. It's like Ron Paul said at that primary debate years ago when he was asked about his position on legalizing drugs, he asked the audience (in South Carolina) "if heroin were legalized, how many people in here would run and and try heroin?" The implication being, obviously, that no one was going to run out and buy heroin if it was legalized. Or maybe - maybe - one or two people would, but is that reason enough to have a multibillion dollar cost to society to imprison all drug users, never mind the moral hazard of locking people up for years simply for ingesting a substance?

The point is, and the data is very clear on it, the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester and virtually all of them are performed before 20 weeks. Like you, I think it's "wrong" for some birdbrain to just decide on a whim after 5 months that she just doesn't want to carry a healthy fetus to term, but is effectively eliminating all abortions for any reason whatsoever in large swaths of the country really the right way to address these exceedingly rare cases? I certainly don't think so...

[hedge]

I also say that I bet the majority of women (esp. young women) who have an abortion go on to have other children when they're ready to and their circumstances make it a better choice for them. But if they're forced to have that child that they would've otherwise aborted, they're never going to have those other children later. They may have other children, but they won't be those exact other children that they would've had if they'd had the abortion on the original, unwanted fetus. So those children that they would've had later by choice will never be born. Effectively, those children are being aborted. So basically some fetus isn't going to get born. Why should politicians and evangelical christians get to decide which ones?

My mom had two miscarriages b/w my older brother and me. I'm sure she was bummed at the time but goddamn I'm not. I wouldn't be here if she hadn't had either of those two miscarriages. So basically somebody is getting aborted no matter how you slice it...

[hedge]

[Jungle Rat]

Dammit Mom!

[hedge]

eCat, did you say you got the covid on your cruise?

[Jungle Rat]

Republicans

MY BODY MY CHOICE - Jabby sticky
YOUR BODY MY CHOICE - Glob of cells.

[sardis]

Interesting about Taiwanese Chip makers wanting money to build facilities in US. They could easily get investors, inmho. I really think they don't want to build in US because if you're Taiwan, a monopoly on chip making helps with security from the West. Like Middle Eastern Oil a few decades ago, U.S. will defend the supply based on "national interest"

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/chip ... 49212.html

[eCat]

eCat, did you say you got the covid on your cruise?

yep

[sardis]

Republicans

MY BODY MY CHOICE - Jabby sticky
YOUR BODY MY CHOICE - Glob of cells.

That hypocrisy also correlates on the left.

[Jungle Rat]

eCat, did you say you got the covid on your cruise?

yep

Karma

[Jungle Rat]

Republicans

MY BODY MY CHOICE - Jabby sticky
YOUR BODY MY CHOICE - Glob of cells.

That hypocrisy also correlates on the left.

Yep.

[eCat]

"But you have the my body, my choice people presenting it as if that isn't an option , that if they want to abort at 5 months for no other than, whoops, I changed my mind, they should have that right"

But again I say, having a right to do something and actually doing it are very different things. It's like Ron Paul said at that primary debate years ago when he was asked about his position on legalizing drugs, he asked the audience (in South Carolina) "if heroin were legalized, how many people in here would run and and try heroin?" The implication being, obviously, that no one was going to run out and buy heroin if it was legalized. Or maybe - maybe - one or two people would, but is that reason enough to have a multibillion dollar cost to society to imprison all drug users, never mind the moral hazard of locking people up for years simply for ingesting a substance?

The point is, and the data is very clear on it, the vast majority of abortions are performed in the first trimester and virtually all of them are performed before 20 weeks. Like you, I think it's "wrong" for some birdbrain to just decide on a whim after 5 months that she just doesn't want to carry a healthy fetus to term, but is effectively eliminating all abortions for any reason whatsoever in large swaths of the country really the right way to address these exceedingly rare cases? I certainly don't think so...

I think there is a huge difference though if you basis for belief is abortion is murder versus taking heroin

I mean lets change the wording

Just because you can commit murder doesn't mean the vast majority of them are going to commit murder.........leaving open the door that a minority of them will commit murder

Just because you can shoot heroin doesn't mean the vast majority of them are going to shoot heroin

that's not just semantics

and lets not forget - the federal government isn't outlawing abortion, they are just leaving it up to states to determine what is appropriate as a result of the SCOTUS ruling.

[Jungle Rat]

I just don't get the whole, let states decide thing. I live in fucking America. If I travel from SC to wherever I don't need to be checking law books every time I cross a state line. That's bullshit.

[eCat]

living in America, maybe you should follow the amendments a bit better

The Tenth Amendment says that the Federal Government only has those powers delegated in the Constitution. If it isn't listed, it belongs to the states or to the people

you and Elizabeth Warren share the same level of comprehension apparently.

[Jungle Rat]

It makes no sense just like most of your posts.