Florida State Seminoles

[BigRedMan]

So what do you say to the armed security guard in your housing addition that monitors the gates?

[Cletus]

Not sure where you got the idea that such a person exists. I just live in a normal house in the city. No guards and certainly no guns in our house.

[aTm]

Well, statistically speaking we can expect that there will be 2,822 home invasions today.

[eCat]

heard someone say what we're really trying to control is aggression, violence and murder - all human conditions thru legislation. Cain and Able........

you don't protect the gazelle from the leopard by cutting the horns off the gazelle

[Professor Tiger]

Chicago, home of Cletus, and also the home of some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country, continues to be a festival of murders and shootings:

8 Killed and 26 Wounded in Memorial Day Weekend Shootings

http://abc7chicago.com/8-killed-in-memo ... o/3530034/

If gun control laws work, why is this happening in Chicago?

[sardis]

If knives are outlawed, only outlaws have knives...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 500328002/

[Cletus]

Chicago, home of Cletus, and also the home of some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country, continues to be a festival of murders and shootings:

8 Killed and 26 Wounded in Memorial Day Weekend Shootings

http://abc7chicago.com/8-killed-in-memo ... o/3530034/

If gun control laws work, why is this happening in Chicago?

The situation would likely be a lot better if neighboring cities and states had better gun control.

[BigRedMan]

Chicago, home of Cletus, and also the home of some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country, continues to be a festival of murders and shootings:

8 Killed and 26 Wounded in Memorial Day Weekend Shootings

http://abc7chicago.com/8-killed-in-memo ... o/3530034/

If gun control laws work, why is this happening in Chicago?

The situation would likely be a lot better if neighboring cities and states had better gun control.

LOL. What they need is more gun-free zone signs. I am sure that will keep the gangs and drug dealers at bay.

[Cletus]

Chicago, home of Cletus, and also the home of some of the most stringent gun control laws in the country, continues to be a festival of murders and shootings:

8 Killed and 26 Wounded in Memorial Day Weekend Shootings

http://abc7chicago.com/8-killed-in-memo ... o/3530034/

If gun control laws work, why is this happening in Chicago?

The situation would likely be a lot better if neighboring cities and states had better gun control.

LOL. What they need is more gun-free zone signs. I am sure that will keep the gangs and drug dealers at bay.

The majority of the guns come from outside of the state and the guns from IL almost all come from out of Chicago. So, if it was harder to get guns in those places, a lot fewer guns would be in Chicago. Fewer guns = fewer shootings. Of course, the obvious answer is no guns at all but you gun fetish assholes really don't care about all the shootings.

[Toemeesleather]

...or....fewer illegal immigrants = fewer shootings?

...or....fewer sanctuary cities = .......never mind.

[eCat]

Cletus believes taking away guns will solve the economic, social and racial issues in this country. Guns are the root of those problems. Take guns away and he can hang out in Riverdale or Fuller Park

[Cletus]

I didn't say that. I just think guns are completely unnecessary and having fewer of them around will lead to fewer shootings. But, you don't care about the shootings, you just want your toys.

[eCat]

I didn't say that. I just think guns are completely unnecessary and having fewer of them around will lead to fewer shootings. But, you don't care about the shootings, you just want your toys.

I doubt your definition of care and mine are the same but yea, I'll go with that. Shootings are a by product of relatively easily accessible guns. There is no debate to that. But I think you believe that you are morally and intellectually superior to 99% of the American population and therefore they must adopt your way of thinking which btw, changes with age and experience. The Cletus from 20 years ago wouldn't have the same line of thinking you do now, but he'd be just as adamant he was right and everyone else is wasted potential. All it takes is one moment - god forbid, a break-in, a violent attack, pain and suffering for someone you care about inflicted by others where you felt helpless to stop it - but you could have - to change your position again. The average response time for police in Chicago is about 5 minutes...after a call is placed.

[Cletus]

You seem very bothered by the fact that I have changed my views on a number of things over the years. Not sure why. I can tell you that 20 years ago I was a young, inexperienced, know it all dumbass. I'm glad I've drawn upon my experiences that I've had over the years and changed. I'm better for it. And, I'm sure I'll change again as I have more experiences. Hopefully, I'll be even better down the road.

[Professor Tiger]

The majority of the guns come from outside of the state and the guns from IL almost all come from out of Chicago. So, if it was harder to get guns in those places, a lot fewer guns would be in Chicago. Fewer guns = fewer shootings. Of course, the obvious answer is no guns at all but you gun fetish assholes really don't care about all the shootings.

There are around 300 million guns in the US right now. If your dream is realized, and all those guns are banned, what do you think will happen to those 300 million guns? Do you think they will all just magically disappear?

And more to the point, do you think any of the gang bangers, just a few miles south of where you live, will just meekly turn in THEIR guns? If/when gun grabbing begins, I will invite you to take the Professor Tiger challenge: go down to Englewood or Garfield Park or Auburn Gresham, and use your moral superiority, earnestness, sincerity, and powers of moral suasion, to convince the Gangster Disciples or the Vice Lords or the Latin Kings to hand their guns over to you. Let me know how that turns out.

[Cletus]

The majority of the guns come from outside of the state and the guns from IL almost all come from out of Chicago. So, if it was harder to get guns in those places, a lot fewer guns would be in Chicago. Fewer guns = fewer shootings. Of course, the obvious answer is no guns at all but you gun fetish assholes really don't care about all the shootings.

There are around 300 million guns in the US right now. If your dream is realized, and all those guns are banned, what do you think will happen to those 300 million guns? Do you think they will all just magically disappear?

And more to the point, do you think any of the gang bangers, just a few miles south of where you live, will just meekly turn in THEIR guns? If/when gun grabbing begins, I will invite you to take the Professor Tiger challenge: go down to Englewood or Garfield Park or Auburn Gresham, and use your moral superiority, earnestness, sincerity, and powers of moral suasion, to convince the Gangster Disciples or the Latin Kings to hand their guns over to you. Let me know how that turns out.

First of all, incremental improvement is a worthy goal. Nobody is saying that the problem can be instantly and perfectly solved. No, not all the guns will disappear but make the incentives large enough and a lot will go away, even some that the gang guys currently hold. Allocate some huge amount of money to the gun buyback instead of the military and I guarantee you that a large part of those 300M will gone. That's one step towards improvement. Then, make the manufacture of guns and ammo extremely difficult (hopefully impossible but that's unlikely) and, over time, many of the guns that remain will become obsolete with very little new product to replace them. That's another big improvement. There will still be guns and there will be shootings but a lot less. This would take a long time to implement but it's worth it if you actually care about reducing the number of shootings. But, of course, you don't care about that.

[eCat]

You seem very bothered by the fact that I have changed my views on a number of things over the years. Not sure why. I can tell you that 20 years ago I was a young, inexperienced, know it all dumbass. I'm glad I've drawn upon my experiences that I've had over the years and changed. I'm better for it. And, I'm sure I'll change again as I have more experiences. Hopefully, I'll be even better down the road.

I think my point is what if you are still a know it all dumbass? 20 years from now its a little late to stand up and say, gosh, I was really talking out of my ass on that one! That's the danger of constantly looking to government to impose your beliefs on others. Worse yet, your belief in government being the answer belies your reality that we live in a country capable of electing Donald Trump and a 1 term Senator from Chicago, and those are the people you look to willingly give up your constitutional rights.

its just too easy to determine whats best for everyone else based on the vacuum you live in, and even worse, to expect our federal government to make it better or right.

and yes, I'm a know it all dumbass as well.

[eCat]

The majority of the guns come from outside of the state and the guns from IL almost all come from out of Chicago. So, if it was harder to get guns in those places, a lot fewer guns would be in Chicago. Fewer guns = fewer shootings. Of course, the obvious answer is no guns at all but you gun fetish assholes really don't care about all the shootings.

There are around 300 million guns in the US right now. If your dream is realized, and all those guns are banned, what do you think will happen to those 300 million guns? Do you think they will all just magically disappear?

And more to the point, do you think any of the gang bangers, just a few miles south of where you live, will just meekly turn in THEIR guns? If/when gun grabbing begins, I will invite you to take the Professor Tiger challenge: go down to Englewood or Garfield Park or Auburn Gresham, and use your moral superiority, earnestness, sincerity, and powers of moral suasion, to convince the Gangster Disciples or the Latin Kings to hand their guns over to you. Let me know how that turns out.

First of all, incremental improvement is a worthy goal. Nobody is saying that the problem can be instantly and perfectly solved. No, not all the guns will disappear but make the incentives large enough and a lot will go away, even some that the gang guys currently hold. Allocate some huge amount of money to the gun buyback instead of the military and I guarantee you that a large part of those 300M will gone. That's one step towards improvement. Then, make the manufacture of guns and ammo extremely difficult (hopefully impossible but that's unlikely) and, over time, many of the guns that remain will become obsolete with very little new product to replace them. That's another big improvement. There will still be guns and there will be shootings but a lot less. This would take a long time to implement but it's worth it if you actually care about reducing the number of shootings. But, of course, you don't care about that.

its all a calculus, you don't care about deaths from automobile accidents,drunk driving, etc because the value , *your* value, says that its a worth the price. Sure we can do more to prevent deaths related to autos, but we shouldn't be motivated to do anything radical because the automobile provides society meaningful, measurable, quantifiable value.

But throw out a fact like that government studies suggest that defensive gun usage is more than double the amount of offensive gun use in this country, meaning that guns prevent potential violent behavior at more than twice the rate of murder and you blow it off as meaningless. It stems from the value system you have that a gun is incapable of providing value to society.

Its *your* calculus you want to impose on everyone else.

its like Hedge telling me that someone can be a regular user of heroin and not become an addict. He can show me proof, but I'll never believe that making heroin legal is good for society. That's my calculus.

[aTm]

I don't own any guns, I don't shoot guns. I don't hunt, etc, so I don't have any toys, just like you don't. Now, with that out of the way, what makes this problem THE one that we should spend "a huge amount of money on" over the myriad of other problems in this country?

There are basically the same amount of Alcohol induced deaths (per the CDC) annually as there are deaths from firearm injury. What makes going after the recreational gun user more palatable (to you) than going after the recreational alcohol user (is it because you and everyone else clearly likes to play with that particular toy)? Then of course you have drug overdoses which are twice as common as gun deaths, suicide generally as well, and that's before you get to the vast numbers of people who die from medical issues. So what merits a fuckton of money to that particular pet problem over others? Its just an emotional response. And the proof of it is how you dismissed the home invasions stats as indicating that those rarely ever happen, while at the same time acting like people are getting shot all the time. You're feelings are not based in any kind of actual risk or cost/benefit reality.

[aTm]

Personally I wouldn't trade my country, where some people get shot every now and then, for some of your favorite ones where nobody gets shot, but people can go to jail simply for what they say somewhere like this website if the government decides they want them to. However, the good thing for you, is that it often seems thats the way we are headed all the time.