Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Toemeesleather]

"Since when has it been part of American patriotism to keep our mouths shut?" - Hillary Clinton 2006

"Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism" - Hillary Clinton 2006




John Kerry on free speech, circa 2011....

“And I have to tell you, I say this to you politely. The media in America has a bigger responsibility than it’s exercising today. The media has got to begin to not give equal time or equal balance to an absolutely absurd notion just because somebody asserts it or simply because somebody says something which everybody knows is not factual.

“It doesn’t deserve the same credit as a legitimate idea about what you do. And the problem is everything is put into this tit-for-tat equal battle and America is losing any sense of what’s real, of who’s accountable, of who is not accountable, of who’s real, who isn’t, who’s serious, who isn’t?”

[sardis]

"25% for all amounts above 250k (right now, they are less than 17%)"

Great idea, if the facts were correct. The earners above 250k are effectively paying about 23%. The 17% figure comes from the effective rate of the top 400 taxpayers, basically, those earning $350 million a year or more. The Daily-Kos, Huffington Post, etc like to use this statistic to fool their simpleton liberal constituents.

The reason the effective rate goes down amongst high earners is because of capital gain rates, not deductions. Deductions are already limited for high income earners.

So, Owlman's plan, however noble, really doesn't raise tax revenues that much more than now. Obama's deficit commission and Paul Ryan's budget plan actually is in line with Owlman's revenue idea; however, both of those understand that revenue does not go up nearly enough for true deficit reduction. Costs must decrease and must decrease significantly. Owlman, hopefully, will eventually come around.

[Owlman]

The earners above 250k are effectively paying about 23%.

Which is an increase in 2% for them and greater for those making more.

Your problem Sardis is that you assume that everyone else believe in either or propositions. It's been a fatal flaw in your posts when you respond to my posts. I have consistently been a proponent of revenue increase and deficit reduction. I am fervantly against doing just one at the expense of the other.

At some point, you will eventually come around.

[sardis]

Maybe I get that idea from the fact you said in the past we can raise revenue more than 20% of GDP, which tells me you think we can set up a structure to get desired goal of 20+% of GDP. History tells us we can't. Bush tax cuts are already set to expire in 2013. That will get us back to 19-20% of gdp. We've legislated as much as we can on the revenue side. It's all about cost reductions now.

[Owlman]

Maybe I get that idea from the fact you said in the past we can raise revenue more than 20% of GDP, which tells me you think we can set up a structure to get desired goal of 20+% of GDP.

No, that's not what it tells you. What you should have gotten from that was the actually statement that I made in response to hat your statement that the highest revenue can go relative to GDP is 20%. I was pointing out that this is a false statement. I made no comment at all whether it should go higher or not. You need to pay better attention.

[Toemeesleather]

Every entity I can think of...big business, small business, individuals, local and state gubments have had to cut back since 2008....hell, even universities w/huge endowments....everybody but the Federal gubment. Until baseline budgeting is addressed any increase in taxes is only temporary. Eliminate baseline budgeting, demonstrate the ability to balance a budget, then get back to me on tax increases.

[Owlman]

every body but the Federal gubment

Which is exactly what should occur during a recession. It's when things are going well that their should be major cuts in spending and increase in taxes to pay for the decrease in taxes and increased spending during the recession.

[Owlman]

That's what we should be doing now, planning on future cuts and tax increases for the future, not immediately.

[BigRedMan]

HEH at Augie with the lemonparty.org facebook post. Don't remember whom I got with that around here but still cracks me up thinking about it now.

[Professor Tiger]

Keynesianism has been disproved. If massive government spending cured recessions then we wouldn't be in the middle of a recession right now.

When the government tries Keynesianism, all it is doing is taking money out of the private sector, running that money through a big bureaucratic filter, and then putting a much smaller portion of that same money back into the private sector. And those places where the money goes are often driven by ideology, not economics - things like high speed rail and "green energy jobs," which can only survive on future and perpetual government subsidies. No wonder Keynesianism has failed every time it's been tried.

[TheBigMook]

things like high speed rail

Ayn Rand's corpse just shed a single tear.

[Owlman]

When the government tries Keynesianism, all it is doing is taking money out of the private sector

Nice try, but the govt hasn't taken anything out of the private sector. Just using words that have no bearing. Private sector hiring has increased but not enough. Where are the job losses keeping unemployment relatively high? It's the loss of state jobs that has contributed to stagnate

[Owlman]

things like high speed rail and "green energy jobs

That's what they said about highways. High speed rail seems to work very well in other countries. Since it's never been tried here, it's pretty presumptuous to say it won't work here without big subsidies. Time being the same, costs the same, I'll take high speed rail over an uncomfortable plane everyday. You sound like Bobby Jindal complaining about wasteful federal programs to predict volcano eruptions while ignoring the one that predicts hurricanes.

[Toemeesleather]

govt hasn't taken anything out of the private sector


Better re-check the Dow bub.

[Owlman]

Dow is private investors.

[Owlman]

Bub

[Owlman]

redundant. Anyway looking at the economic health of the country based upon a few days of the Dow is foolish.

[Toemeesleather]

Oh Yeah, that's right, it's those stoops Standard and Poor's and the tea baggers that are crashing all our retirements, not congress...sorry.

[Owlman]

tea baggers that are crashing all our retirements

Better call them and sell, sell, sell.

[Owlman]

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