College Football

[bluetick]

My best friend in elementary school lost his oldest brother in Vietnam (his battalion was in the Central Highlands and was featured in one of the earlier episodes). That household went from being a hub of activity to being off limits to everybody. The parents shut down and quit everything. My buddy didn't even wait for his HS diploma before he split for Miami and learned a trade (he's buried there - murdered by a robber). A sister was in and out of jail on drug charges.

That war killed that whole family.

[eCat]

NFL players are overpaid? The league generates $15B+ in revenue and the players get less than half of that. They are the product. Granted, they have their union to blame for the shitty deal they've got but I can't see any argument that they deserve less than they are getting.

The league is overpaid too

That will not be sustainable.

But you fully understood what I saying in relation to the audience they represent. To get into a discussion about their actual value in relation to the perception of the ticket buyers is just wasted effort.

[eCat]

I get respect for the military up to a point, I just don't like being manipulated. I always thank vets for their service if they're wearing a hat or have a sticker on their car, esp. older ones who probably served in WWII (maybe that's just b/c of extra respect of the elderly) and have paid the tab for guys in uniform at restaurants (OK, it was Appleby's, but still). Next door neighbor at the beach was a colonel, I always thank him for his service and I can tell he appreciates it. But at the same time, anybody who goes into the military these days knows what they're doing, nobody is being forced. They made a business decision that was right for them. Even so, I still believe they deserve our respect and appreciation, but I just don't buy the "they died for our freedoms" line, not when it's being directed at people who are exercising that very freedom. If you're not allowed to exercise it, it's not really freedom, at all.

And I don't think that any of these players taking a knee or whatever are doing it as a sign of disrespect to the military or the flag or whatever else they're peddling on Fox News. I don't believe they hate the country or anything remotely like that, they're just making a statement about an issue that's important to them and that's important period. Whether it's effective or not, I don't know, but trying to say that you are disrespectful and hate our country and don't appreciate our freedoms, and that the only way you can display that respect and love and freedom and appreciation is to act in only one certain way, to me that is more disrespectful of our freedoms than taking a knee...

there is a time and place for it.

Everyone understands that those fuckheads from whatever church has a right to protest for what they believe but protesting a soldiers funeral saying God hates fags is out of place - and people despise them for it.

Its really irrelevant whether the players actually think they are disrespecting the flag or the military. They chose the venue, they chose the activity and they knew ahead of time the reaction of many Americans from what has happened to Kaepernick - For those that are committed, I doubt they care, but its a little late to start clarifying intentions.

[hedge]

Man, you are the most vocal guy on here when stuff like Ruby Ridge or Waco happens, and I'm not saying you're wrong about that, I would actually tend to agree that the government overstepped in those situations and many others, but can't you see that many black people feel like they're Waco'd every day? Now people can argue to what extent and I also agree that in many cases and many ways, the media and politicians and other pundits play upon the legitimate grievances of some to paint a picture that maybe is worse than the reality, but just b/c you don't feel aggrieved in the same way (how could you?) or can make counter-arguments about how great things are now relative to how they were (choose your time frame) years ago and that people just need to quit complaining and get to work, I still think it's understandable why these players are doing what they're doing...

[Saint]

I could care less about who stands or who sits for the national anthem. Frankly, I wish it wasn't even played before every goddamn ballgame played. It's overkill and devalues what should be a sentimental song.

More importantly, I'm sick of all the fake patriotism every fucking where you look. Who gives a shit if you salute at the flag if that's all you do? Try making your area a better place by being a good neighbor and make your city a better place by being a good citizen. You don't own the right to say what Americans should or should not do and every fucking one of has had some family member in the armed forces.

If you've spent more than 2 minutes talking about this anthem shit, you're a fucking asshole.

no you don't own the right , but you own the right to react to as you see fit.

I don't care to watch a football game and see players protesting, nor do I want to hear the sportscasters give their opinion on it. I want to watch the game and move on. They wouldn't even show the anthem before a regular game to begin with if some jackass hadn't decided he was going to make it a political statement.

Fair enough. Keep it about the game and my rant went both ways. Well, the first part of it. Still think people who decorate their home for the Fourth of July are assholes

[eCat]

Man, you are the most vocal guy on here when stuff like Ruby Ridge or Waco happens, and I'm not saying you're wrong about that, I would actually tend to agree that the government overstepped in those situations and many others, but can't you see that many black people feel like they're Waco'd every day? Now people can argue to what extent and I also agree that in many cases and many ways, the media and politicians and other pundits play upon the legitimate grievances of some to paint a picture that maybe is worse than the reality, but just b/c you don't feel aggrieved in the same way (how could you?) or can make counter-arguments about how great things are now relative to how they were (choose your time frame) years ago and that people just need to quit complaining and get to work, I still think it's understandable why these players are doing what they're doing...

. Its not the subject, its the platform that is the issue

[hedge]

So you're saying it would be more appropriate and effective if they signed up here at the Goat Pen and ranted instead of taking a knee at a game?

[eCat]

So you're saying it would be more appropriate and effective if they signed up here at the Goat Pen and ranted instead of taking a knee at a game?

All I know is I doubt anyone even remembers why Kaepernick knelt to begin with. He is out of a job, the NFL is losing fans by the thousands and the president is saying professional athletes should be fired like striking air traffic controllers. The protest is going along swimmingly.

[hedge]

These things take time. Unfortunately, some people insist on being on the wrong side of history every time...

[Saint]

The NFL can sell its fans for pennies on the dollar and still be rich like Trump. Bobby Joe will come back in due time when he gets tarr'd of whuppin' his wife.

[sardis]

"All I know is I doubt anyone even remembers why Kaepernick knelt to begin with"

So people could see over his 'fro?

[hedge]

Not bad...

[Saint]

Better than average around here. Probably sardis' best post ever.

[Professor Tiger]

Tick, what does all that stuff you posted have to do with Trump colluding with the Russians, and being run out of office by Labor Day? Has that great hope fallen on hard times?

You claiming that I ever said Trump would be gone by Labor Day is a goddamned lie and you know it. AA was right about you all along.

Way harsh.

All I know is I doubt anyone even remembers why Kaepernick knelt to begin with.

That calls for a brief history lesson. Kaepernick's crybaby millionaire temper tantrum started last year, when he wore socks depicting police as pigs. And, by the way, he wore those socks right after 5 Dallas police officers were murdered while they were protecting BLM demonstrators. (The NFL refused to allow the Dallas Cowboys to memorialize those officers with their uniforms.)

http://www.snopes.com/colin-kaepernick-socks/

And liberals can't figure out why Kaepernick is widely regarded as a POS and the NFL is widely regarded as spineless.

[Professor Tiger]

The protest is going along swimmingly.

Correct:

34% Are Less Likely to Follow NFL Because of Protests

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... f_protests

And that poll was taken before the kneeling outbreak on Sunday.

[Jungle Rat]

Fuck you

[Jungle Rat]

That was for hedge

[Professor Tiger]

Hot off the press: this poll is the first taken since the NFL's war on its own fanbase was fully joined last Sunday:

BREAKING PUBLIC POLLING
National Survey: Americans Agree with Trump on National Anthem

Remington Research Group has conducted a national public opinion survey regarding the NFL. The survey was conducted September 25th and 1,633 respondents participated.

Most Americans, 51%, say they have watched less football this year compared to the past. Of respondents who said they have watched less football this year, 69% cite their reason as players using the NFL as a stage for their political views.

Almost two-thirds of Americans, 64%, state that NFL players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem while 24% of Americans do not believe players should stand and be respectful during the national anthem.

Concerning news for the NFL is that 50% of Americans claim they are less likely to watch their favorite team due to the protests during the national anthem. Furthermore, 60% of Americans believe players should find a more appropriate place to protest.

“Americans are very clear on this issue: they do not support political protests during the national anthem,” said Titus Bond, Director of Remington Research Group. “On top of that, due to the protests, Americans are watching less football and that trend will continue as long as the protests do.”

http://remingtonresearchgroup.com/

In a couple of years, when NFL profits are down by half, and all those idiot kneeling players get new contracts worth far less than they expected, and all those owners can't find buyers of their insolvent franchises, even at fire sale prices, then this childish temper tantrum won't seem like such a good idea after all.

[bluetick]

Watching Burn's Vietnam tonight I had to be reminded of the first national poll taken immediately after the Kent State massacre. Seems 58% of Americans thought the dead students got exactly what they deserved.

What's new is old again.

[eCat]

I haven't seen the documentary part on Kent State yet.

however the initial Kent State protests turned violent on May 1 and a state of emergency was declared on May 2. It was after the State of Emergency was declared that the National Guard was brought in. When they arrived the ROTC building was on fire. As firefighters attempted to put out the building, protesters cut the hoses. The protesting continued on May 3 and showed no signs of diminishing going into May 4.

The biggest mistake in that was the decision to hold classes on May 4 on the heels of a declared state of emergency. It was a stupid decision.

The point is the Kent State protests just didn't happen in a single day where the National Guard was brought in to stop it. It built in intensity and resulted in violence happening before the guard was brought in to restore order. Perhaps its context, but in a state of emergency, it shouldn't surprise anyone that people will be shot for confronting armed soldiers. They are soldiers, not policeman.

As for Antifa - anyone who shows up in public with a mask armed with a chain, bike locks or whatever in an attempt to incite violence against people exercising their first amendment rights has no sympathy from me if they get a bullet in the head. Its one thing for a peaceful protest to get out of control, its another to start your day with violence as part of your agenda. Why would anyone support people who do that?