Florida State Seminoles

[AlabamAlum]

CITE YOUR WORK ECAT!

-12 citation points

[Bklyn]

Wasn't the leak a classic Snowden move?

The administration was sitting on this Flynn information for weeks. At some point, isn't someone compelled to force the hand if Flynn is potentially compromised but still having access to classified national intelligence (it is my understanding that he read the intelligence briefings and then summarized them in the bullet point for POTUS. So, essentially Flynn had control over what Trump knew from the briefings)?

Principle over party is always okay for me.

Also, I saw Rand Paul say tonight that there is too much work to be done for Republicans to be investigating Republicans. What. The. Fuck? This was said in public and on the record. Jesus. We have no shame as a people.

[Bklyn]

The United States is much better off without Michael Flynn serving as national security adviser. But no one should be cheering the way he was brought down.

The whole episode is evidence of the precipitous and ongoing collapse of America's democratic institutions — not a sign of their resiliency. Flynn's ouster was a soft coup (or political assassination) engineered by anonymous intelligence community bureaucrats. The results might be salutary, but this isn't the way a liberal democracy is supposed to function.

Unelected intelligence analysts work for the president, not the other way around. Far too many Trump critics appear not to care that these intelligence agents leaked highly sensitive information to the press — mostly because Trump critics are pleased with the result. "Finally," they say, "someone took a stand to expose collusion between the Russians and a senior aide to the president!" It is indeed important that someone took such a stand. But it matters greatly who that someone is and how they take their stand. Members of the unelected, unaccountable intelligence community are not the right someone, especially when they target a senior aide to the president by leaking anonymously to newspapers the content of classified phone intercepts, where the unverified, unsubstantiated information can inflict politically fatal damage almost instantaneously.

President Trump was roundly mocked among liberals for that tweet. But he is, in many ways, correct. These leaks are an enormous problem. And in a less polarized context, they would be recognized immediately for what they clearly are: an effort to manipulate public opinion for the sake of achieving a desired political outcome. It's weaponized spin........

no matter what Flynn did, it is simply not the role of the deep state to target a man working in one of the political branches of the government by dishing to reporters about information it has gathered clandestinely. It is the role of elected members of Congress to conduct public investigations of alleged wrongdoing by public officials.

As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,

Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do. [Bloomberg]

Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.

Also, maybe Trump shouldn't have shat on them and their "intelligence." They gather information and harm people for a living.

[Dave23]

"Our children and (especially) our grand-children are going to HATE US and CURSE US"

That's a certainty in your case...

A solid "A"...well done...

[eCat]

Wasn't the leak a classic Snowden move?


Principle over party is always okay for me.

.

With a Trump administration it is.

You guys are talking treason for a single phone call - a phone call where the FBI said no specific laws were broken - were you talking treason or blackmail when the Russians had 34,000 emails from Hillary Clinton?

"Several officials emphasized that while sanctions were discussed, they did not see evidence that Flynn had an intent to convey an explicit promise to take action after the inauguration." - Washington Post

so what are the leaks about? Its trying to take down Flynn for lying about his communication to the Russians as it was relayed to the V.P.

That's the role of the FBI and CIA?

[eCat]

Also, maybe Trump shouldn't have shat on them and their "intelligence." They gather information and harm people for a living.

seems to me, given what they've just done, he called them out for being what they are.

and don't forget, Chuck Schumer set the stage for this

New Senate Minority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) said Tuesday that President-elect Donald Trump is "being really dumb" by taking on the intelligence community and its assessments on Russia's cyber activities.

"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.

I"m not sure what can be done but I bet there will be a cleaning out of spooks now just like the state department or at least an attempt will be made.

[Bklyn]

Ok, so this is the Dems fault. Didn't see that coming.

As far as "treason" talk, unless your talking about the range of opinion across the internet, no one here has called it that. The closest it's been (from my recollection) is it being called "borderline" or "damn near."

What it is is improper and pushing red herrings and false equivalents out there won't change that.

[eCat]

you really want to split hairs on you saying "its bordering on treason"?

[sardis]

What if the professor was nonmuslim...

https://mystudentvoices.com/georgetown- ... .wy3hp1c8o

[bluetick]

Breaking

Trump Campaign Aides Had Numerous Contacts With Russian Intelligence - NY Times 6 hrs ago

a leak here, an iceberg there..

[hedge]

Trump didn't see anything wrong with Wikileaks, in fact he loved them. I'm sure he's OK with all this as well...

[hedge]

What if the professor was nonmuslim...

https://mystudentvoices.com/georgetown- ... .wy3hp1c8o

Damn, is that IB?

[Jungle Rat]

Trump is losing money everywhere. He's gonna quit sooner than later. His ego can't take this beating. Shamed already.

[Bklyn]

you really want to split hairs on you saying "its bordering on treason"?

Yes. Menacing is not assault. It is bordering on assault, but not assault. They both are negative, but different.

[BigRedMan]

So question to the panel:

What do you think of Nordstrom's and other places that refuse to work / carry Trump items?

[hedge]

Haven't thought about it and don't care. It's a business decision, the market will sort it out...

[hedge]

Who wrote that?

http://theweek.com/articles/680068/amer ... y-worrying

I suspect those who are outraged over this "soft coup" against Flynn weren't quite as bothered when Comey said he might re-open the FBI's investigation on Hilary a week before the election...

[innocentbystander]

So question to the panel:

What do you think of Nordstrom's and other places that refuse to work / carry Trump items?

Fine by me. If Ivanka's clothes aren't selling then, they should pull them. Why waste expensive retail space on apparel that doesn't move off the shelf? She should list her shoes on Amazon if she hasn't already. They don't need her and she doesn't need them.

Brick and mortar retail is basically dead (or it will be soon.) Walk through any older mall or strip mall and count all the vacant units with the old "available" signs in the window. Amazon is crushing everyone with the exception of Wal-Mart and maybe Target.

I think the small, mom-and-pop retail, has to think way outside the box more now than ever, if it wants to survive. And I saw an example of this. It is rare that I ever actually enter a mall, but the last time I did, when I wasn't busy counting all the empty/vacated stores, I saw a crowd of teeni-boppers out in front of this little store, yakking, looking at the windows, and for the ones that weren't yakking or looking, they were staring at their little screens. I don't think this particular apparel store was a chain or if it was, not one that I have ever heard. But it was pretty mobbed both out front in the mall hall and inside the store. And it was pretty clear why. The store had no mannequins. They had live human beings as models standing in the windows, wearing the clothes the store was selling. THAT is thinking outside the box. I don't think they were professional models, probably just high school girls who want a basic job standing in the window and not talking to anyone. But because no other store was doing that and being a model is a "cool job", all their friends wanted to hang out at the store and "watch them" while they roamed around the store looking at the clothes.

[hedge]

I wish you were brick and mortar retail...

[eCat]

Who wrote that?

http://theweek.com/articles/680068/amer ... y-worrying

I suspect those who are outraged over this "soft coup" against Flynn weren't quite as bothered when Comey said he might re-open the FBI's investigation on Hilary a week before the election...

the irony of that however is that if Loretta Lynch hadn't compromised her credibility by meeting with Clinton on the tarmac, she would have been more engaged to discuss whether it was prudent for Comey to send that letter. Instead she had to take a hands off approach that gave Comey free reign to do what he thought was was his charter (not that I believe stating no reasonable judge would conclude wrong doing was in his charter either)

secondly, while you can argue that Comey was being a loyalist to Trump or the Republican party (hard to imagine since Trump dogged him), what is happening now is more concerning

What if the spook community is revolting because they don't want normalized relations with Russia? The Military Industrial complex, along with the spook community's livelihood could very well be based on the idea that we have a known quantity as a superpower threat. Maybe they are leaking because they just want to shit on Trump - or maybe they are leaking because the have their own agenda regardless of who is president or our foreign policy.

Is Kucinich a nutcase? I don't know. I know the dude has bit some conspiracy theories in the past.

[youtube]_-9nJzJF8Rc[/youtube]