Florida State Seminoles

[eCat]

Yet, no terrorist act in the US since 9/11 has been committed by anyone other than residents or those with legal rights to be here and own guns.

Trump left them out of his EO.

Obama tried that route. He failed.

[Saint]

No, the Visa Waiver bill was not the same thing as this EO. Otherwise, it would have already been in practice, not to mention, you continue to lazily pin it on Obama, when he was but a part of the legislative process. This is 100 percent Trump (along with his inner circle toads).

[eCat]

No, the Visa Waiver bill was not the same thing as this EO. Otherwise, it would have already been in practice, not to mention, you continue to lazily pin it on Obama, when he was but a part of the legislative process. This is 100 percent Trump (along with his inner circle toads).

oh he was part of the legislative process. OK, then that doesn't make it targeting Muslims. I understand now.

[Saint]

Of course it targets Muslims but not all Muslims. It targets people in the Middle East but not all Middle Easterners. That's a stupid argument and a waste of time and you know better.

It took the rightwingers about 24 hours and now all they're coming back with is that we've always hated immigrants or that it was done under Obama, which are incorrect and beside the point. It's a radical and unnecessary move that apparently came together haphazardly and without contingencies and has no place in American policy.

The good news is that as Trump continues with these types of decisions, he won't last long.

[eCat]

Of course it targets Muslims but not all Muslims. It targets people in the Middle East but not all Middle Easterners. That's a stupid argument and a waste of time and you know better.

I don't even understand what you are saying there.

if its not targeting all Muslims, then it must not be a muslim ban.

why are we having this discussion then?

Let Them In” is the constant chant of the demonstrators at JFK Airport in NY City as the protest is live-streamed this Saturday evening. “This is the 1930s all over again.” said one interviewed protester with reference to refugees from Nazi Germany.

Do I understand this correctly? In the 1930′s, refugees and other immigrants demanded entry into a country whose ruler was “Literally Hitler?”

[BigRedMan]

Trump could sign an executive bill that would eventually lead to a cure for cancer and liberals would bitch that he signed an executive order in the first place.

Oh and as far as attacks on our soil since 9/11. That is true. Other countries have been hit as well. Keep this mind. They are in it for the long haul. They have no issue waiting 10, 20 years to do something specific. It is a culture. They are in no rush. They want to cause chaos and make people insecure and governments to under/over react. They have no issue with death by 1000 cuts. There will be another attack. Just a matter of time.

And as far as the ban, GOOD. As long as there are Vets who are homeless, cold, starving, or can't get proper medical treatment, fuck the rest of the world. As long as their are children going hungry and the only food they get is when school is in session, fuck the rest of the world. As long as mental health issues in this country are not being addressed, fuck the rest of the world.

When we have those three things solved properly, sure open up the gates. Till then, ask Canada or Mexico to take them.

[sardis]

He has already backtracked on the green cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFev2BmnhE&sns=em

Everyone is going to have to get used to the way he does things. He basically starts off by shocking you with an unbeliavable proposal then backs off a little so you feel like you're getting something. Just like throwing the 20% tariff on Mexico out there knowing he only needs to get 3-4% to pay for wall construction.

[Saint]

Of course it targets Muslims but not all Muslims. It targets people in the Middle East but not all Middle Easterners. That's a stupid argument and a waste of time and you know better.

I don't even understand what you are saying there.

if its not targeting all Muslims, then it must not be a muslim ban.

why are we having this discussion then?

Let Them In” is the constant chant of the demonstrators at JFK Airport in NY City as the protest is live-streamed this Saturday evening. “This is the 1930s all over again.” said one interviewed protester with reference to refugees from Nazi Germany.

Do I understand this correctly? In the 1930′s, refugees and other immigrants demanded entry into a country whose ruler was “Literally Hitler?”

You're worse that Kellyanne. Muslims are banned, no matter what it's called or how many it includes. The Visa Waiver bill didn't do this. Trump chose to exclude certain countries. He won't win this one. That about covers it.

[Saint]

Trump could sign an executive bill that would eventually lead to a cure for cancer and liberals would bitch that he signed an executive order in the first place.

Oh and as far as attacks on our soil since 9/11. That is true. Other countries have been hit as well. Keep this mind. They are in it for the long haul. They have no issue waiting 10, 20 years to do something specific. It is a culture. They are in no rush. They want to cause chaos and make people insecure and governments to under/over react. They have no issue with death by 1000 cuts. There will be another attack. Just a matter of time.

And as far as the ban, GOOD. As long as there are Vets who are homeless, cold, starving, or can't get proper medical treatment, fuck the rest of the world. As long as their are children going hungry and the only food they get is when school is in session, fuck the rest of the world. As long as mental health issues in this country are not being addressed, fuck the rest of the world.

When we have those three things solved properly, sure open up the gates. Till then, ask Canada or Mexico to take them.

You're right. We can't even take care of our own and there's zero chance of the current power structure making that better.

[Bklyn]

He has already backtracked on the green cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGFev2BmnhE&sns=em

Everyone is going to have to get used to the way he does things. He basically starts off by shocking you with an unbeliavable proposal then backs off a little so you feel like you're getting something. Just like throwing the 20% tariff on Mexico out there knowing he only needs to get 3-4% to pay for wall construction.

This isn't commercial real estate, though. Doing things in this way taxes the downstream agencies and fosters resentment because they are kept in the dark and then have to figure out things; feeling like they have to translate and bail out the poorly communicated decisions from the Executive Office.

It's not a long-term winning strategy in government.

[eCat]

Of course it targets Muslims but not all Muslims. It targets people in the Middle East but not all Middle Easterners. That's a stupid argument and a waste of time and you know better.

I don't even understand what you are saying there.

if its not targeting all Muslims, then it must not be a muslim ban.

why are we having this discussion then?

Let Them In” is the constant chant of the demonstrators at JFK Airport in NY City as the protest is live-streamed this Saturday evening. “This is the 1930s all over again.” said one interviewed protester with reference to refugees from Nazi Germany.

Do I understand this correctly? In the 1930′s, refugees and other immigrants demanded entry into a country whose ruler was “Literally Hitler?”

You're worse that Kellyanne. Muslims are banned, no matter what it's called or how many it includes. The Visa Waiver bill didn't do this. Trump chose to exclude certain countries. He won't win this one. That about covers it.

there are 45 predominantly Muslim countries that aren't on the list.

Please tell me what the Visa Waiver bill did or didn't do in respect to people that resided from these countries.



Here is a link to the full text of Trump Orders. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/ ... -refugees/

Please read it and then tell me where Trump specifically mentions the countries by name. (hint - he doesn't - he references Obama list of names created - 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) ). Or more importantly exclude countries he has business dealings with or where Muslims came from. He's going by the framework of the previous administration who defined countries that were an area of concern and took steps to control their entry into this country. He is taking it a step further.

If you want to call it a Muslim ban, fine - its a muslim ban targeting people that Isis said they would intentionally try to infiltrate as immigrants coming to this country.

As Jimmy Carter targeted Iranians, as Obama targeted Iraqis ( as well as all the nations listed by Trump in 2015), Trump is targeting what he believes is a security risk.

He won't lose on this one.

[bluetick]

Giuliani: Trump Asked Me How to Ban Muslims 'Legally' - AP

they forgot to plug the rudy hole

[hedge]

Good segment on 60 Minutes last night about the vetting process for Syrian refugees seeking asylum in the US. Evidently it takes about 18 months and numerous interviews with various agencies, plus multiple background checks, etc. The idea that we were just indiscriminately opening our doors to anybody who wanted to come was never the case, but I'm sure Trump has something even better in mind...

[eCat]

I watched is last night

Did you see the bicycle motor?

Anyone in the tour de france is just compelled to cheat anyway they can

[crashcourse]

interesting take

google isis beheadings or isis atrocities

or number of isis fighters

anyway the relevancy for me is like keeping your doors open to your house--anybody here do that?

then why should the usa? you have to have a screening process--you cant let everybody into your house because you cant support everybody coming into your house.

[eCat]

I just saw a video of the Mexico's former Foreign Minister saying that if Trump pulls out of NAFTA and humiliates Mexico then Mexico has no reason to stem the flow of drugs and illegals from South America.

I can understand his frustration, but that will just embolden Trump to take extreme measures. That video is going to spread quickly. It won't help their cause.

[Cletus]

interesting take

google isis beheadings or isis atrocities

or number of isis fighters

anyway the relevancy for me is like keeping your doors open to your house--anybody here do that?

then why should the usa? you have to have a screening process--you cant let everybody into your house because you cant support everybody coming into your house.

There already is a screening process, you moron.

These are the kind of people that are being shut out - https://www.propublica.org/article/clev ... 1485734179

This person is making a massive positive change in the US and to American lives. But, she's out in order to prevent a 1 in 3 billion chance that some terrorist might come and blow up a school. Good move.

[eCat]

interesting take

google isis beheadings or isis atrocities

or number of isis fighters

anyway the relevancy for me is like keeping your doors open to your house--anybody here do that?

then why should the usa? you have to have a screening process--you cant let everybody into your house because you cant support everybody coming into your house.

take the human equation out of it.

lets say Isis was telling us they were poisoning food exports from the region to America, and lets say that people in France were recently poisoned from eating food from that region. What would our reaction in the states be in regards to accepting exports from that region?

This is a country that mandated tamper proof packaging due to 6 people dying of potassium cyanide poisoning in tainted Tylenol capsules in Chicago. The risk/chances of dying to tainted over the counter medicine was minuscule for the average American.

[crashcourse]

nerve of trump closing our borders to those countries
https://mic.com/articles/166845/the-lis ... nistration

bottom line is until we take better care of the people in this country we have to restrict access

I feel bad Syrian refugees are suffering like they are but to open the border and spend billions when our own working class supports more then half of this country already.

youve got to lock your doors sometime to the floods --im sure individuals who already have visas and legitimate business will eventually be allowed in

[Cletus]

There is a massive difference between denying a visa waiver and an outright ban. I can get behind the extra scrutiny that was required from the Obama law. But, denying entry for people who already were granted a visa (and went through the extra scrutiny you seem to thirst for) or people who hold a green card (make no mistake - that was intentional) is unconscionable.