Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[Owlman]

Sardis will increase taxes

[Owlman]

Conservative columnist David Brooks was ravaged by the tea-partiers for this editorial:

The Mother of All No-Brainers

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opini ... ef=opinion

"The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it."

[sardis]

Sardis will increase taxes

Nope, I claim status quo on tax rates. As it is now on the books, Clinton rates come back in 2013. No increase needs to be legislated. So, I guess I don't know why dems want MORE taxes. I guess they feel Clinton rates aren't enough.

[Professor Tiger]

Deduct 20 points from BOJ. His analogy plagiarizes my analogy, only my analogy is better.

Owl and Mook, you may not like these analogies, but they accurately reflect how millions of Americans view the problem. They interpret current events in connection with their own life experience. They all know some idiot who recklessly ran wild with his credit card, and they don't shed a tear for that idiot when the bill collector comes around.

And yes, Bush was a big part of the current problem. That's one reason why fiscal conservatives don't like the W very much. Obama spending is just Bush spending on steroids.

[TheBigMook]

Only in this case, for your analogy to be more accurate, you aren't the neighbor of the person with the bill collector at the door. You are the child or spouse. You all gone down together.

[Professor Tiger]

Only in this case, for your analogy to be more accurate, you aren't the neighbor of the person with the bill collector at the door. You are the child or spouse. You all gone down together.

If they don't raise the debt ceiling, I may no longer have a job on August 3rd. Well, I'll still have a job, but they won't pay me for doing it.

But for every government bean counter like me who is harmed by failure to raise the debt ceiling, there would be ten business owners who say, "Finally! Maybe the government is finally out of my face for awhile. My taxes won't go up. The new regulations I'm saddled with will be unenforced because the regulators have been defanged. I may not even have to pay a hefty new Obamacare tax. Maybe now would be a good time to buy new equipment or hire a new employee."

Getting the size, intrusiveness and expense of the federal government back under some kind of Constitutional control will do a LOT more to stimulate business and the economy than the Obama stimulus ever did.

[Professor Tiger]

The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it."

This is true. I don't believe the "scholars" or the "experts" who predict calamity if we don't raise the debt ceiling. This is because those same scholars and experts assured us two years ago that only the Obama stimulus and massive budget deficits would stop a similar "calamity." They wisely assured us that if we followed the Obama/Democrat economic solutions of stimulus and deficits, the unemployment rate would peak out at something like 8%, and would quickly recede to tolerable levels. The "scholars" and "experts" were absolutely and totally wrong.

[TheBigMook]

But for every government bean counter like me who is harmed by failure to raise the debt ceiling, there would be ten business owners who say, "Finally! Maybe the government is finally out of my face for awhile. My taxes won't go up. The new regulations I'm saddled with will be unenforced because the regulators have been defanged. I may not even have to pay a hefty new Obamacare tax. Maybe now would be a good time to buy new equipment or hire a new employee."

Wow, talk about being willfully delusional.

[Professor Tiger]

We'll never get a chance to put my prediction to the test. The R's will cave and the ceiling will be raised.

I've got to decide what to do with all the T-bills I'm invested in. Sell or not to sell..

[Toemeesleather]

Conservative columnist David Brooks ...


heh

[TheBigMook]

I'm confused, folks on here kept saying that we've only ever raised taxes. But then they also say that the W. tax cuts expire in 2013. Which is it? Is someone lying, or just spouting off ignorant bullshit?

[Hacksaw]

I'm confused, folks on here kept saying that we've only ever raised taxes. But then they also say that the W. tax cuts expire in 2013. Which is it? Is someone lying, or just spouting off ignorant bullshit?

I MAR'd. Who said we only ever raise taxes?

[TheBigMook]

You act like we haven't been cutting taxes all this time as well.

We've spent more and collected less.

The logical fix would be to spend less and collect more. Not just spend less.

No. We've collected more and spent even more.

Deficit narrowed every year from 2003 to 2007 as tax revenue increased more than spending.

Then in jobs were lost and revenue decreased and spending went up dramatically.

We need more taxpayers...aka...more jobs and reduced spending in defense, and major structural changes to SS and Medicare.

But y'all look alike anyway.

[Hacksaw]

Obviously there's a difference between increased tax revenues and raising tax rates. The two are not mutually exclusive. Admitting that tax revenues have increased isn't the same as saying that all we ever do is raise taxes. Lowering rates has, in fact, been known to result in higher revenues. When you hear someone talking about "raising taxes" they're usually talking about raising the rates. I haven't seen anyone here claim that we've only ever raised taxes.

What we have said is that we only ever raise spending. And that's indisputable -- even if people want to play games by posting graphs that are based on % of GDP or are based on numbers as they relate to projected results.

[Professor Tiger]

Well, the House did not pass the Boehner plan. The freshman republicans have major stones. Now the initiative swings back to the Dems, the Senate, and Harry Reid.

This debt ceiling saga is going to get interesting.

PS: John Boehner was described last night as "The world's saddest looking tangerine."

[TheBigMook]

PS: John Boehner was described last night as "The world's saddest looking tangerine."

heh

[Owlman]

Now the initiative swings back to the Dems, the Senate, and Harry Reid.

how??

[AlabamAlum]

I think he was saying that Reid is devising a plan in the Senate.

[Professor Tiger]

He already devised his plan and made it public days ago.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/ ... eiled.html

Now the initiative swings back to the Dems, the Senate, and Harry Reid.

how??

Since I posted yesterday, the House finally passed the Boehner plan version 3.0. It went to the Senate, where the majority Democrats predictably killed it. Now Reid will probably get his plan passed in the Senate, and send it to the House.

It will come down to the majority Republican House voting on either the "reasonable" Reid plan presented to them, or the end of life on earth. If the Republican House doesn't pass the Reid plan, then the Republicans will get the blame when all hell breaks loose in the world financial markets on August 3.

[puterbac]

Are 747's ever on time? 1st time on one and its delayed 2+ hours misses connection and next flt isn't for another 7 hours.

Now on return and 747 is again delayed 6 hours and then another 2.5.

Luckily got on a different flight, but now on last flt out so any screwup and my be stuck there yet.