Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[AlabamAlum]

Did you notice the part where I said, "for example"?

Anyway, we could probably raise $600B if you put faith in the Laffer Curve (nod to Tone). Many economists believe revenue will continue to go up until you hit an effective tax rate of around 70%. It would be very painful, though.

[puterbac]

Here's my list, which is pretty similar to AA's:

1. To make the R's happy, pass a 2013 budget that is a carbon copy of the 2008 budget. If we didn't have millions dying in the streets in 2008, then we probably won't in 2013 either. That simple reasoning would probably appeal to the public, and would be hard for the D's to attack. If we need more money for the social safety net in this recession, then take that money from the countless other worthless programs in the federal budget.

2. To make the D's happy, return tax levels back to the last year of the Clinton era. If the economy didn't implode with that level of taxation, then it probably won't in 2013 either. That simple reasoning would probably appeal to the public and would be hard for the R's to attack.

3. Pass a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution, which would require a supermajority congressional vote to pass any deficit.

4. While you're at it, pass another constitutional amendment banning the use of US military forces on nation building escapades abroad. Abolish the War Powers Act and go back to the Constitutional requirement for Congress to declare war.

5. Abolish ObamaCare unless they can find a rational way to pay for it in compliance with a budget amendment.

6. Make the border with Mexico impregnable, then give amnesty to the non-criminal illegals already here.

So the Marshall plan would have been illegal if #4 in place post WWII?

#5 only needs the first two words.

#3 is fine, but does have to have some allowance for emergencies but those need to be well defined and require ......never mind re-read it and you already said that.

[puterbac]

Heh @ "whatever pol."

No doubt the Yellowhammer State produces more Mercedes, Hondas, Toyotas, and Hyundais as a group than any other comparable land mass anywhere on the globe. Shelby has been described in some circles as a foreign corporate agent moonlighting as a US Senator. You gotta say the man had chutzpa for taking on the role of point man for trying to effectively gut the Detroit automakers.

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

sushi lovers, the lot of them... even on the Fourth

Sure its a good thing, but is it artificial due to outside factors such as quake/tsunami? Just asking.

[puterbac]

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

LMAO! Post of the week, if not the month. The obvious reason PNNery takes "a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world" as bad news is they are desperately afraid that Obama might get a tiny morsel of credit for it. Just like puter goes to absurd lengths and logical contortions to argue that Clinton should get no credit whatsoever for the budget surplus that happened under his watch. PNN will never admit to the old adage that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

And you are friggin incorrect again. Clinton gets credit for signing the cap gains tax cuts, signing wlefare reform, and seeing the tides change from the overreach of HIllarycare and instead of getting swamped by the R wave of '94 he rode it into '96 and won.

But does he get credit for the internet (insert Gore joke here)? That IS the primary reason there were surpluses (along with an opposition congress that actually did a decent job). Was he responsible for y2k spending by biz?

[puterbac]

Anyway. In my naiv-i-TAY, I thought a US automaker leading the way in sales for the first time this century over Japan and the rest of the world was a pretty good thing. Obviously others don't see it that way.

Of course not. That would mean that some credit would have to be given to the Dems.

Bush, McConnell and Boehner were big borrowers and spenders. Obama, Pelosi and Reed were bigger borrowers, bigger taxers and catastrophic spenders.

what taxes did Obama increase? Aren't taxes currently lower under Obama?

As for getting rid of the PPACA, (otherwise called by some Obamacare, previously called Romney Plan, and before that the 1994 Republican Health care plan), according to the CBO, PPACA will decrease the cost of government compared to what was present before it was passed. Of course, people tend to accept use the CBO when it supports what they want, but totally ignore it when it doesn't. They aren't perfect, wrong often, but probably is the best way to evaluate future costs as opposed to demogogery.

CBO needs to be allowed to evaluate all aspects of legislation and not be limited by rules that will support one party or another. Example: Tax cuts are only allowed to be looked from a a lost revenue perspective and not allowed to look at potential benefits from more investment, hiring, spending and how that will affect revenue.

[Owlman]

Hiring is a line item deduction. It has nothing to do with the tax cut proposed. To do that, you'd have to cut payroll taxes, something supported by many Republicans until proposed by Obama administration 2 weeks or so ago.

[bluetick]

DRIVER'S SEAT on msnbc.com
by Paul Eisenstein 7/6/2011

For the first time in years, a U.S. automaker has topped the passenger car sales charts.

Chevrolet's new compact Cruze was the best-selling car in the United States in June, new sales data show, cruising past perennial chart-toppers like the Toyota Camry and Honda Civic.


flashback to comments made about the GM and Chrysler bailout made in Dec 2008:
"Their business model is a disaster and their decisions are terrible," said Sen. Richard Shelby, R-AL. "It is unrealistic to think that companies who have failed to make tough choices over decades will get their act together now that they have received a downpayment from taxpayers."

How much of that is related to the earthquake and tsunami affecting supply of parts etc from Japan for Toyota and Honda?

Some people admire the home run; others bemoan the pitch. It pretty much depends on which team you're on. Which team are you on, puter?

Did the tsunami have an effect? Sure, even though new Camry's sit unsold on showroom floors. But the sticking pedals and numerous recalls surely had an effect as well. Things have not gone Toyota's way for a pretty good stretch.

there's a drive....WAY back....that ball is .. OUTTA HERE! USA takes a lead! Ho-ly cow!

[Toemeesleather]

Here's a better example of how this administration creates jobs.....you can skip this post tick

With 9.1% unemployment and gasoline prices in the stratosphere, President Obama must sometimes wish that some big corporation would suddenly show up and offer a shovel-ready, multibillion-dollar project to create 100,000 jobs and reduce U.S. reliance on oil from dictatorships.

Oh, wait. His Secretary of State has had that offer sitting on her desk since she was sworn in. The trouble is that the Administration can't approve it without upsetting its anti-fossil fuel constituency. And so the proposal sits....

If Mr. Obama were drawing up a plan from scratch to boost union employment and deflate Iranian-ally Hugo Chávez of Venezuela, it might look like the Keystone XL. TransCanada estimates that building the pipeline will mean more than $20 billion—$13 billion from TransCanada itself—in investment and 13,000 new American jobs in construction and related manufacturing. The company also expects more than 118,000 "spin-off" jobs during the two years of construction.

[sardis]

Did you notice the part where I said, "for example"?

Anyway, we could probably raise $600B if you put faith in the Laffer Curve (nod to Tone). Many economists believe revenue will continue to go up until you hit an effective tax rate of around 70%. It would be very painful, though.

History tells us that you can only get tax reciepts around 19% of gdp no matter what you do. Tax receipts have only reached 20% 3 out of the last 70 years. We had even 90% tax rates at times during that span.

Anyway, tick has convinced me that the Clinton/R congress of 1998 - 2000 is the way to go. Bring back Clinton rates and cut spending to 18% of gdp. That amounts to about $700-$800 billion in spending cuts a year.

We have a deal, tick?

[Professor Tiger]

So the Marshall plan would have been illegal if #4 in place post WWII?

The Marshall Plan is a PERFECT historical example of how the US military should be used in NON-nation building. The US military had very little to do with implementing the Marshall Plan. The Army was there to keep the Russians away. They did not build very many schools and roads and health clinics. That was done almost entirely by civilian bean counters from the States.

If we had followed the modern Bush/Obama nation building strategery during WWII, then LeMay would only have been allowed to bomb pinpoint military targets unless there were civilians in the area. Patton's troops would have been issued rules of engagement requiring approval from headquarters to shoot back during the Battle of the Bulge and invasion of Berlin. In his fireside chats, FDR would have told the German people that we really like them and respect them and only want to free them from Nazism. Patton would have marched into a largely intact Berlin because there Wehrmacht was gone, but the German people would still uncowed.

If we had followed the Bush/Obama strategery of nation building during the Marshall Plan, the German people would not have surveyed the wasteland that their country had been reduced to, and said to each other, "The Allies won. We lost. We can never defeat them. We might as well get with their program." Instead, they would have looked at a country largely intact and said, "What a bunch of pansies these Americans are. We can still beat them."

If we had followed the Bush/Obama strategery of nation building during the Marshall Plan, then for the next decade (at least), US soldiers would build thousands of schools and health clinics all across Germany, often under fire from the "Hitler Forever Front" and the "Fatherland Liberation Bund" and the "Deutschland Shall Arise Brigades." Guerillas would have snuck in the next night and blown them all up. Then US troops would have been ordered to repeat this scenario over and over and over.

If we had followed the Bush/Obama strategery of nation building during the Marshall Plan, then the German leader we installed would have denounced our occupation, demanded that we leave, brazenly stolen elections, executed former Nazis for converting to capitalism, frequently betrayed US interests and secretly cooperated with the "Hitler Forever Front" and the "Fatherland Liberation Bund" and the "Deutschland Shall Arise Brigades.

But, other than that, your analogy of modern nation building and the Marshall Plan is spot on.

[bluetick]

Would I love to repeat 1998-2000 Sardis? Oh hells yeah..

peace, prosperity, and above all

.

[sardis]

Here is a study done by left wing global warmists explaining why temperatures have not increased since 1998...

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress. ... 102467.pdf

Evidently, an increase in sulfur emmissions offset greenhouse gases in the flat periods between 1940's-1970s and the period 1998-2008. A quote from their conclusion:

"The post 1970 period of warming, which constitutes a significant portion of the increase in global surface temperature since the mid 20th century, is driven by efforts to reduce air pollution in general and acid deposition in particular, which cause sulfur emissions to decline while the concentration of greenhouse gases continues to rise..."

WTF? so burning coal help stem global warming?

[sardis]

Would I love to repeat 1998-2000 Sardis? Oh hells yeah..'

peace, prosperity, and above all

Let it be noted that tick is on board with the $700 billion of spending cuts.

And that T martin is the best Vol qb of all time.

[Dora]

Would I love to repeat 1998-2000 Sardis? Oh hells yeah..

peace, prosperity, and above all

And lots of headlines about blow jobs & phone sex & a sperm-stained dress.

[Owlman]

Ain't nothing wrong with blow jobs

[Dora]

Ain't nothing wrong with blow jobs

I don't think so either. But the way folks carried on about that!

[GBJs]

Ain't nothing wrong with blow jobs

I don't think so either. But the way folks carried on about that!

I dunno...I couldn't care less if ole' Bill got a little on the side. JFK was said to be nailing M.M. even though he had Jackie at home. Anyone who could accuse Hillary of looking like Jackie is either drunk, stupid, or has the love of a Mother.

I really think it was the lying part most people had issue with.

[Hacksaw]

If George Bush had done it, all of the Clinton supporters would have been outraged.

[Dora]

I really think it was the lying part most people had issue with.

Could be. But it was the blow jobs & the stained dress that made the headlines.

[Dora]

If George Bush had done it, all of the Clinton supporters would have been outraged.

Done what -- the bj or the lying?