Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[aTm]

Subsidence is a major issue, probably the major issue for coastal cities and populations. Cities are going to get inundated by sea level rises in the long term. Seas have been rising since the last ice age and it's not going to stop even of we quit burning fossil fuels tomorrow. Subsidence changes local sea levels up to 10 times as fast as global sea level and there are clear examples of cities which sink at rapid rates and become endangered by coastal flooding even with minimal sea level rise. Your inch in 5 years or whatever is minuscule compared to subsidence which could be measured in feet in some cases. Thankfully there is a clear solution, stop burning fossil fuels, have billions of people die off or starve and subsidence will likely not be a problem we need to worry about anymore.

I don't know what's going on in Miami Beach but if I lived there sudden tidal flooding over an 8 year period would make me worry about the land sinking not about global warming.

[Professor Tiger]

I don't know what's going on in Miami Beach but if I lived there sudden tidal flooding over an 8 year period would make me worry about the land sinking not about global warming.

Of course. If Miami is sinking, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner. If Miami is rising, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the sea level is rising, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.
If the sea level is falling, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the Great Lakes are still frozen over on Memorial Day, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the polar ice cap is larger than ever, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If there has been no global warming since 1997, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

Etc. That why MMGW is a religion. No amount of counter evidence will even be acknowledged by its adherents, much less persuade them.

[10ac]

Vermont Maple Syrup Producer Complains: NBC Edited My Remarks to Support ‘Global Warming’

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sean-long/ ... al-warming

[Dr. Strangelove]

Missed this when it originally aired...exposes the hypocrisy of conservatives who villify the poor.

$3 B in "welfare fraud" = an outrage, fuck the poor, get off the couch you moocher, quit taking govt handouts

$4 B in subsidies to oil companies = that amount is a pittance, don't villify job producers for taking advantage of govt programs

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/jon-stewart- ... hypocrisy/

[Toemeesleather]

I don't know what's going on in Miami Beach but if I lived there sudden tidal flooding over an 8 year period would make me worry about the land sinking not about global warming.

Of course. If Miami is sinking, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner. If Miami is rising, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the sea level is rising, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.
If the sea level is falling, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the Great Lakes are still frozen over on Memorial Day, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If the polar ice cap is larger than ever, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

If there has been no global warming since 1997, it's caused by manmade global warming, and disaster is around the corner.

Etc. That why MMGW is a religion. No amount of counter evidence will even be acknowledged by its adherents, much less persuade them.

Well......then where is the model that shows the hockey stick going both ways?

[Professor Tiger]

The hockey stick turned out to be a magic wand.

[hedge]

If it is being smashed upside Toe's head, yes...

[bluetick]

Etc. That why MMGW is a religion. No amount of counter evidence will even be acknowledged by its adherents, much less persuade them.

So the intransigence of climate eggheads makes for 'a religion?' Odd that a man of faith would use the term pejoratively...but that's one of the endearing qualities of pnn. The richness of the irony...

[Professor Tiger]

I didn't use it pejoritively. If people want to embrace MMGW as a religion, that's fine with me. (There are wierder religions out there.) Just don't make me pay tithes to it. To me, the real irony is the MMGW devotees don't acknowledge the leaps of faith in their religion that most Christians would in theirs. MMGW's intolerance of opposing views is reminiscent of fundamentalism.

Another way it reminds me of a fundamentalism is its faith in an imminent apocalypse. I grew up on a steady diet of preachers and books that predicted the world was about to end. Back then it was "The Late Great Planet Earth." More recently, it was the "Left Behind" series. The preachers made a lot of money on those books, like Al Gore and scientists living on lucrative research grants with predetermined expectations of the outcome.

MMGW is a lot like that - all that's missing is the zombies.

[sardis]

Prof, you still have time....but not much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9r6BubOD7M

[Professor Tiger]

Boy, does that bring back memories. Except in the church I grew up in, the elders would never allow hippies with long hair and drum sets in.

Here's another MMGW-religion parallel: "carbon credits" allow people like Al Gore and John Edwards live lifestyles that pollute the environment more than most third world countries. Then, all they have to do is give a little money to obscure "green" investments and POOF! - they are self-absolved. This bears a striking resemblance to the medieval Catholic practice of "sale of indulgences."

[10ac]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 57860.html

[bluetick]

Dark Money Funds Climate Change Denial Effort

A Drexel University study finds that a large slice of donations to organizations that deny global warming are funneled through third-party pass-through organizations that conceal the original funder

Dec, 2013 by Douglas Fisher

study found that the amount of money flowing through third-party foundations like DonorsTrust and Donors Capital, whose funding cannot be traced, has risen dramatically over the past five years. In all, 140 foundations funneled $558 million to almost 100 warming denial organizations from 2003 to 2010.

Meanwhile the traceable cash flow from more traditional sources, such as Koch Industries and ExxonMobil, has virtually disappeared.

The study was published Friday in the journal Climatic Change.

"The climate change countermovement has had a real political and ecological impact on the failure of the world to act on global warming," Brulle said in a statement. "Like a play on Broadway, the countermovement has stars in the spotlight -- often prominent contrarian scientists or conservative politicians -- but behind the stars is an organizational structure of directors, script writers and producers. To understand what's driving the movement, you have to look at what's going on behind the scenes."

[sardis]

and the climate change apologists do their work for free?

[bluetick]

heh

If Climate Scientists are in it for the Money, They're Doing it Wrong by John Timmer

One of the more unfortunate memes that makes an appearance whenever climate science is discussed is the accusation that, by hyping their results, climate scientists are ensuring themselves steady paychecks, and may even be enriching themselves. A Google search for "global warming gravy train" pulls out over 50,000 results (six from our forums).

It's tempting to respond with indignation; after all, researchers generally are doing something they love without a focus on compensation. But, more significantly, the accusation simply makes no sense on any level.

You can't make a bundle pushing the consensus

Since it doesn't have a lot of commercial appeal, most of the people working in the area, and the vast majority of those publishing the scientific literature, work in academic departments or at government agencies. Penn State, home of noted climatologists Richard Alley and Michael Mann, has a strong geoscience department and, conveniently, makes the department's salary information available. It's easy to check, and find that the average tenured professor earned about $120,000 last year, and a new hire a bit less than $70,000

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/02/ ... the-money/

So climate scientists by and large make considerably less coin than you, sardis. Feel better?

[bluetick]

in conclusion (great stuff, btw)

The problem is that climatologists are well equipped to identify potential problems, but very poorly equipped to solve them; it would be a bit like expecting an astronomer to know how to destroy a threatening asteroid. The solutions to problems related to climate change are going to come in areas like renewable energy, carbon sequestration, and efficiency measures; that's where most of the current administration's efforts have focused. None of these are areas where someone studying the climate is likely to have a whole lot to add. So, when they advocate that the public take them seriously, they're essentially asking the public to send money to someone else.

To sum up: climate research doesn't pay well, the amount of money dedicated to it has been shrinking, and if the researchers were successful in convincing the public that climate change was a serious threat, the response would be to give money to someone else. If you come across someone arguing that scientists are in it for the money, then you can probably assume they are willing to make arguments without getting their facts straight.

[bluetick]

S&P 500 Hits 1900 for First Time

shhh

[bluetick]

Obamacare's $3 Billion Windfall to Customers

The Affordable Care Act required insurers to rein in overhead costs, and consumers saved big
by Money Staff 5/13/2014 http://money.msn.com/health-and-life-in ... 89bc87e9bb

move along; nothing to see here

[Toemeesleather]

...nothing to see here for 6 years.


fyp

[bluetick]

...nothing to see here for 6 years.


fyp

For sure..no new wars and no economic calamities.

The next president, whoever she is, is gonna appreciate that relative tranquility.