Florida State Seminoles

[hedge]

I have as little sympathy for government overreach as eCat, as well as personal animosity toward it (see my last post), but just as in my case, you play the game anyway and lose, you pay the price. Yeah, alot of things regarding government should be changed, blah blah blah, but while the rules are in place, if you choose to break them, be prepared to suffer the consequences...

[hedge]

"But the BLM made a decision to phase out ranching on the federally owned land - and Nevada is 81% federal land."

They need that land for nuclear testing...

[Jungle Rat]

I'm sure your cellmate showed you plenty of sympathy.

[eCat]

I have as little sympathy for government overreach as eCat, as well as personal animosity toward it (see my last post), but just as in my case, you play the game anyway and lose, you pay the price. Yeah, alot of things regarding government should be changed, blah blah blah, but while the rules are in place, if you choose to break them, be prepared to suffer the consequences...

the governments determination of the consequences is the heart of the issue here - for me anyways - and apparently a large number of other people including politicians. Bundy's race statements have killed his momentum but they shouldn't be held as a reason to stop addressing the primary concerns here.

[eCat]

"But the BLM made a decision to phase out ranching on the federally owned land - and Nevada is 81% federal land."

They need that land for nuclear testing...

I wonder how well that works out for the desert tortoise?

[hedge]

"the governments determination of the consequences is the heart of the issue here - for me anyways"

Me too. It always seemed to me (and still seems) that the government be allowed to send men with guns to break into your house, steal your property and put you in jail just b/c you are in possession of marijuana was an extreme inequity in consequences...

[eCat]

"the governments determination of the consequences is the heart of the issue here - for me anyways"

Me too. It always seemed to me (and still seems) that the government be allowed to send men with guns to break into your house, steal your property and put you in jail just b/c you are in possession of marijuana was an extreme inequity in consequences...

and there are many politicians who agree with that. I voted for one of them in 2012

[AlabamAlum]

I understand the limitations set and fighting that, but he's not paying any of his grazing fees, correct? You can think that taxes and government fees are bad and unjust, and want to fight them, but if you just stop paying them, the government will take your shit and has had no problem in killing you for it if you get in the way for over 200 years.

[eCat]

I believe he made a huge mistake in not paying his grazing fees, but in this case it was a calculated risk.

Had he paid his grazing fees - then his issues with the BLM would not have been brought to light nationally, I'm not sure what would have happened had he paid for 150 cattle and kept 900 out there - but short of him sending in grazing fees for 900 cattle and the BLM accepting payment on it, I don't see how he could have done much to change the direction of where this was heading.

[AlabamAlum]

I agree that it was a mistake. Send in the fees on 900 and ignore the credits that they try to issue. From a strategy standpoint, he's going to force the government to act, sooner or later, because the other government-land grazers will stop paying their fees if they see he has gotten away with it. (I do have some sympathy with him being disgusted by the ring-necked tortoise or whatever...some of my favorite rec lands are off limits to protect the snail darter. GMAFB.)

Jon Stewart recently compared this to the Whiskey Rebellion - and there is some truth in that. And we all remember learning in 8th grade US history how Geo. Washington handled that.

[Owlman]

"But the BLM made a decision to phase out ranching on the federally owned land - and Nevada is 81% federal land."

But it is still FEDERALLY OWNED. Which means they decide what they want to do with it. 21 years of not paying fees that other ranchers pay and who pay significantly more on private lands. He is at a significant advantage over other ranchers who obey the law.

If he wants his other cattle to eat, you do what the other ranchers do, pay the private fees for the rest of his cattle.

But what bothers me most is the embracing of a guy that quote doesn't believe in the federal government; not limited govt, but the existence of the federal govt. He doesn't believe in the power of the state govt (before you state's rights people jump in). The highest authority he believes in is the county sheriff. Do your homework Hannity before you embrace somebody like this. Too many times, he's put someone forward that are blatantly lying or just aren't what they say they are. And Rand Paul, you should have learned by now. You can't trust people that come on Hannity because he won't do the proper background check. Why? Because as Fox says, he's not a reporter.

[eCat]

I agree that it was a mistake. Send in the fees on 900 and ignore the credits that they try to issue. From a strategy standpoint, he's going to force the government to act, sooner or later, because the other government-land grazers will stop paying their fees if they see he has gotten away with it. (I do have some sympathy with him being disgusted by the ring-necked tortoise or whatever...some of my favorite rec lands are off limits to protect the snail darter. GMAFB.)

Jon Stewart recently compared this to the Whiskey Rebellion - and there is some truth in that. And we all remember learning in 8th grade US history how Geo. Washington handled that.

actually Kentucky's threat to secede thwarted the first attempt to contain it militarily IIRC

[eCat]

"But the BLM made a decision to phase out ranching on the federally owned land - and Nevada is 81% federal land."

But it is still FEDERALLY OWNED. Which means they decide what they want to do with it. 21 years of not paying fees that other ranchers pay and who pay significantly more on private lands. He is at a significant advantage over other ranchers who obey the law.

If he wants his other cattle to eat, you do what the other ranchers do, pay the private fees for the rest of his cattle.

But what bothers me most is the embracing of a guy that quote doesn't believe in the federal government; not limited govt, but the existence of the federal govt. He doesn't believe in the power of the state govt (before you state's rights people jump in). The highest authority he believes in is the county sheriff. Do your homework Hannity before you embrace somebody like this. Too many times, he's put someone forward that are blatantly lying or just aren't what they say they are. And Rand Paul, you should have learned by now. You can't trust people that come on Hannity because he won't do the proper background check. Why? Because as Fox says, he's not a reporter.

I can't speak for Hannity - but I can say that a large % of the people aren't embracing Bundy on his beliefs or even his actions - they are embracing him because he was literally, not figuratively in the crosshairs of the federal government, and Harry Reid pretty much validated the fears those people defending Bundy had when he declared they were domestic terrorists and this wasn't over.

And no one believes that this is over. I think very few people actually believe that Bundy will come out ahead on this deal but forcing the government to address how it confronts American citizens is a big step.

secondly, when you agree that its federally owned and say "they" decide what they want to do with it - who the hell is "they"? Harry Reid and his chinese solar energy buddies? We've really lost touch as to who "they" are and who "they" ultimately answer to. I think you've long forgotten that as well Spacer. The federal government isn't an entity upon itself. The agencies of the federal government have no right to act on the regards of political operators. The BLM in particular owes its very existence to the ranchers who demanded it stay solvent and in place to represent the ranchers interests. Somewhere along the way, as government agencies are prone to do, they became political pawns interested in self preservation and long forgot the ranchers that kept them active when government cuts deemed then unnecessary.

[Owlman]

"your heroes should already be dead, that way nothing new will come out about them"

Hogan Gidley, Republican strategist

[Owlman]

they are embracing him because he was literally, not figuratively in the crosshairs of the federal government

Then don't embrace him. You embrace the cause not by making him a hero (and putting him on your program 6 days in a row) but also criticize him for what he doing wrong at the same time you sympathize with him for the problem. In other words, you DO A FAIR REPORT. Hannity didn't, and now he and the Libertarian wing of the party who didn't use perspective have egg on their face.

As for Bundy, he's gone on with now 4 new interviews trying to make it better and each time making it worse.

Bundy will not come out ahead. Take him back to court and arrest him and put him in jail, like Wesley Snipes and other major tax cheats

[eCat]

its amazing how many people that have a public platform thrust upon them suddenly decide they can speak on virtually any topic.

and the media is there just waiting for their moment to exploit it.

how many times has a public figure ever said on camera "I don't know anything about that so I can't speak to it"

nope, everyone has an opinion on something - and only a few of them actually think it thru before they grab the microphone.

[Bklyn]

I'm opposite eCat on a lot of this cattle shit, but I am unequivocally in line with him on the way the government has acted in this. It was overreach.

The law is against Bundy and I think he is on the wrong side (largely) on the issue, regardless of the court ruling (as MLK said, "all laws are not just"). However, the actions by the government were aggressive, unnecessary and not productive.

[Owlman]

21 years, JAIL.

Rand Paul? stupid

[eCat]

they are embracing him because he was literally, not figuratively in the crosshairs of the federal government

Then don't embrace him. You embrace the cause not by making him a hero (and putting him on your program 6 days in a row) but also criticize him for what he doing wrong at the same time you sympathize with him for the problem. In other words, you DO A FAIR REPORT. Hannity didn't, and now he and the Libertarian wing of the party who didn't use perspective have egg on their face.

As for Bundy, he's gone on with now 4 new interviews trying to make it better and each time making it worse.

Bundy will not come out ahead. Take him back to court and arrest him and put him in jail, like Wesley Snipes and other major tax cheats

as I said, I can't speak for Hannity, and Rand Paul has ran away from Bundy as far as he could given the circumstances.

I think I've been pretty clear that I don't see Bundy as a hero or a victim as it relates to grazing cattle -I believe he has enough of a stance to have a valid argument and people fight this stuff all the time , but I am happy there are people who have not forgot about Waco and who have a valid growing distrust of our government as agencies created to serve the public interest decide they need assault rifles and tasers to do their job. Matter of fact, I would donate money to their organizations who stand up to that, if they actually were organized beyond some guys sitting around in $9 wal mart folding chairs.

[Owlman]

plenty of militias out there eCat to give to. Many of them showed up in Nevada. Like Bundy, they don't believe that there is a federal govt. Most of them have very similar views to Bundy. It's on their websites, for all to see.