Puterbac News Network and Political Discussion Thread

[AlabamAlum]

Most of the open-carry folks aren't the 'true' nutters, and certainly not the criminals - they view themselves as freedom fighters - at the very least, they' feel they're making a statement.

[bluetick]

Open carry is not a social norm and it's not going to become one. People trying to make a statement by displaying their deadly weapon in public are merely going to be looked at suspiciously by most citizens.

But the obvious case against OC is a tactical one. Surely I need go no further.

[AlabamAlum]

I agree it's not a 'social norm' -- but not following a particular norm doesn't make you a complete nutter.

And looking at the OC videos on YouTube, you obviously see suspicion from others. So, agreed.

Not sure what you mean about the tactical aspect of OC vs CC. But it really doesn't matter.

Alabama is an OC state - and has been. It's not a real issue here.

I'm a gun owner, and I carry. The only time I have a visible holstered pistol is at the hunting club. But I don't get worked up when I see a 'freedom fighter'.

[bluetick]

Not sure what you mean about the tactical aspect of OC vs CC. But it really doesn't matter.

The best deadly weaponry is a shotgun or a rapid-fire long rifle, but naturally they don't lend themselves to OC.

OC means pistol, which is the least effective firearm. The main positive of a pistol is stealth. Strapped to your side in plain view, that goes by the wayside. It alerts every criminal that you are armed, so that he'll take you out first. He can then relieve you of that handgun which, besides being a threat to him, is also an item of considerable value that he can sell to his criminal pals. Tactically speaking, CC beats OC hands down.

But hey, you don't open carry outside of your club, so you know all of this.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Most of the open-carry folks aren't the 'true' nutters, and certainly not the criminals - they view themselves as freedom fighters - at the very least, they' feel they're making a statement.

"Freedom fighters"???????????????

GTFOH. We didn't have open carry in 1787.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Not sure what you mean about the tactical aspect of OC vs CC. But it really doesn't matter.

The best deadly weaponry is a shotgun or a rapid-fire long rifle, but naturally they don't lend themselves to OC.

OC means pistol, which is the least effective firearm. The main positive of a pistol is stealth. Strapped to your side in plain view, that goes by the wayside. It alerts every criminal that you are armed, so that he'll take you out first. He can then relieve you of that handgun which, besides being a threat to him, is also an item of considerable value that he can sell to his criminal pals. Tactically speaking, CC beats OC hands down.

But hey, you don't open carry outside of your club, so you know all of this.

My buddy (an investigator for the DA's Child Support Unit) had has car stolen at the gas station. He calls 911 and they are like "tough beans, we'll call you back in 2-3 weeks." Then he tells them about the 9MM that's in the trunk and a cruiser shows up within 3 minutes. More amazingly, they recover the car (along with the pistol and the thief) within 30 minutes.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Open carry is not a social norm and it's not going to become one. People trying to make a statement by displaying their deadly weapon in public are merely going to be looked at suspiciously by most citizens.

But the obvious case against OC is a tactical one. Surely I need go no further.

My view of Open Carry is that it's an esteem building tool for small dicked posers pretending like they're Matt Dillon.

[AlabamAlum]

Tick,

I believe the OC guys would argue that a weapon hidden in clothes takes longer to retrieve and level - which is the reason that cops don't hide their weapons - even the plains clothes guys. Doesn't matter to me, though, I am a card-toting CC guy. Further, we aren't having criminals seek out our OC folks. I think our criminals are cowards or lazy or whatever, because they are leaving those folks alone, it seems. As far as the "best weapon" pistols are best for extreme close quarters, are light weight, and most have a satisfying capacity.

JD,

I didn't choose that term capriciously. Spend some time on opencarry.org. As far as open carry in 1787, sure we did in areas. I have no doubt, though, that some municipalities restricted open carry, though.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Tick,

I believe the OC guys would argue that a weapon hidden in clothes takes longer to retrieve and level - which is the reason that cops don't hide their weapons - even the plains clothes guys. Doesn't matter to me, though, I am a card-toting CC guy. Further, we aren't having criminals seek out our OC folks. I think our criminals are cowards or lazy or whatever, because they are leaving those folks alone, it seems. As far as the "best weapon" pistols are best for extreme close quarters, are light weight, and most have a satisfying capacity.

JD,

I didn't choose that term capriciously. Spend some time on opencarry.org. As far as open carry in 1787, sure we did in areas. I have no doubt, though, that some municipalities restricted open carry, though.

Shotguns are the best close quarters weapon. I've seen (don't ask) a person miss another person from 5 feet away with a handgun.

I have not seen stats on open carry, but no study through 2010 has shown a drop in crime anywhere due to concealed carry (yes, there have been huge drops in crime in states like NC, etc., but those drops have mirrored the national rate of decrease in crime - no CC state is outpacing non-CC states in crime reduction). The biggest problem in tracking (as is often hurled at Gun Lobby tool John Lott) is that many of the places that allow Shall-Issue or Unrestricted Carry are counties of less than 100,000 people and didn't have appreciable crime rates to begin with.

There are 300,000 (three hundred thousand) people in my City Council District- that's bigger than any city in 12 of the 18 Open Carry states.

[bluetick]

Tick,

I believe the OC guys would argue that a weapon hidden in clothes takes longer to retrieve and level - which is the reason that cops don't hide their weapons - even the plains clothes guys. Doesn't matter to me, though, I am a card-toting CC guy. Further, we aren't having criminals seek out our OC folks. I think our criminals are cowards or lazy or whatever, because they are leaving those folks alone, it seems. As far as the "best weapon" pistols are best for extreme close quarters, are light weight, and most have a satisfying capacity.

With the right training, it's as easy to retrieve from a concealed holster as one in the open air.

But that was my original point - the training. The new open carry law being considered requires no training whatsoever - range, gun safety - nada. You only have to be breathing, over 18, and not a [convicted] felon. You can be sightless, deaf or dumb. You can be a Kluxer or an Occupy Wallstreeter. You can be a homeless bum who found a piece under a bridge.

Not smart.

[AlabamAlum]

I do not care for shotguns at extreme close quarters. Too difficult to level at 0-3 feet. I also do not like them in the 'crowded house' scenario.

I have no reason to believe that OC positively or negatively affects crime.

[AlabamAlum]

Tick,


As easy? No. Easy enough? Okay.

Are their training mandates in your state for CC? Are you suggesting training for all, or just the open carry folks?

[AlabamAlum]

As many know, I used to shoot competitively, and I still hunt and will occasionally drop by a firing range to drop brass. As such, I have known many OC guys. Most, I think, truly believe that they are doing what's right. I don't share their belief. It is too contra to my pragmatism, but I don't believe the bulk of these guys are bad folk, though. Their message is, in their mind, a rights issue.

And, with that, I'm done on this issue. Probably.

[sardis]

And this time we mean it...

http://news.yahoo.com/cia-chief-visited ... QAXt3QtDMD

[bluetick]

Tick,


As easy? No. Easy enough? Okay.

Are their training mandates in your state for CC? Are you suggesting training for all, or just the open carry folks?

Currently, a permit gives you the option of CC or OC. Citizen has to take a certified handgun safety course in a classroom and pay 125 bucks. At least some semblance of responsibility.

The new open carry bill . Literally no requirements...have gun will travel. We're already the most violent state in the union per capita...why not put countless new untrained gun-toters on our streets?

Yes, I would prefer training for all. Surely you do too.

[bluetick]

Sardis makes an interesting inference. What's the point of feeding the Military Industrial Complex if we're not going to sic it on the rooskies.

[AlabamAlum]

I like training. $125 is too much, though. The sheriff''s department in my county trains for free. The Tennessee law is obviously a device to keep poor, disenfranchised blacks from legally carrying. You racist Jim Crow bastards.... It's not the first time that's happened. Reagan, as the California governor, enacted tougher OC laws due to the Black Panthers open carrying. The Panthers protested by marching on Sacramento...with their openly carried guns.

[Johnette's Daddy]

I do not care for shotguns at extreme close quarters. Too difficult to level at 0-3 feet. I also do not like them in the 'crowded house' scenario.

I have no reason to believe that OC positively or negatively affects crime.

Good point re: crowded house.

[Johnette's Daddy]

Liberal that I am, I still love fully automatic shotguns:

[youtube]WOoUVeyaY_8[/youtube]

I'm also partial to incendiary rounds:

[youtube]FbsgHbXubGU[/youtube]

[Dr. Strangelove]

don't own a gun and not interested in having one. I'm a risk-taker!!!