Ostensibly Hoops

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Bluecat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:05 pm

BigRedMan wrote:Mr. Farmer -savior of KY basketball and has his jersey retired if I recall - wonder what he is doing now? Probably not trying to drop the soap!! Some pipe hitting brother from Louisville is probably Rupping his arena as we speak. Damn you would think he would learn a lesson about being from Kentucky and trying to cheat the system.

Just remember:

Not if, but when.
Farmer is getting what he deserves. Remind me again which school was most recently put on probation, UK or IU?

Just a simple re-ordering of one phrase categorizes the frets and fears of two fanbases.

For UK, it's "Not if, but when" the hammer will fall on Calipari.

For IU, it's "Not when, but if" Crean will ever return the Hoosiers to relevance.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Cletus » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:06 pm

all he had to do was ask. It's been 20 years since that happened. Hard to believe.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by crotch » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:48 pm

hedge wrote:I'm sure Crotch is dearly hoping that the era of the baggy shorts is on the way out, too...
.....back to the good 'ol days

Image

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Saint » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:51 pm

their jerseys look like they say: "ECATS"

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:54 pm

crotch wrote:
hedge wrote:I'm sure Crotch is dearly hoping that the era of the baggy shorts is on the way out, too...
.....back to the good 'ol days

Image

that was my high school

no kidding - we retired those uniforms and put them in a display case. I used to walk by them every day on the way to gym.

Eldrey Miller was a member of that team and went on to be a school bus driver in later life. Kidsk new to wait a moment before getting on the bus because when he opened the door he always spit a chaw of tobacco out . Had a rhythm to it grabbing the big handle and spitting in one continuous motion
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Saint » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:00 pm

If there were classes at UNC in which no one ever showed up and all the students were given automatic passing grades, that's a big problem. if they were just easy courses, as I've said, that is hardly restricted to UNC.

The thing I want to see is Willingham's methodology. How does she get to say "whatever % of athletes have a reading level between 4th and 8th grade?" Unless she has shown the scale to determine such a nebulous rating (because not all 4th-graders read at the same level), then it strikes me as hyperbole.

Secondly, her findings mean nothing without context. What goes on at other schools in regards to athletes' reading levels? I realize that no matter at what grade level the athletes read at South Carolina or Auburn or any of the SEC schools that wouldn't show their cards, it's not going to detract from North Carolina not living up to its own academic standards. The school has consistently portrayed itself and has been portrayed as one among the top public universities in the nation and this is not in line, so far as we know, with that standing. At least not the image. If it's found that all schools have incredibly dumb football and basketball players, then the outrage at UNC should lessen.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:03 pm

Saint wrote:If there were classes at UNC in which no one ever showed up and all the students were given automatic passing grades, that's a big problem. if they were just easy courses, as I've said, that is hardly restricted to UNC.

The thing I want to see is Willingham's methodology. How does she get to say "whatever % of athletes have a reading level between 4th and 8th grade?" Unless she has shown the scale to determine such a nebulous rating (because not all 4th-graders read at the same level), then it strikes me as hyperbole.

Secondly, her findings mean nothing without context. What goes on at other schools in regards to athletes' reading levels? I realize that no matter at what grade level the athletes read at South Carolina or Auburn or any of the SEC schools that wouldn't show their cards, it's not going to detract from North Carolina not living up to its own academic standards. The school has consistently portrayed itself and has been portrayed as one among the top public universities in the nation and this is not in line, so far as we know, with that standing. At least not the image. If it's found that all schools have incredibly dumb football and basketball players, then the outrage at UNC should lessen.

I'm not sure if she did this on her own or if its a standard thing but she isn't going by ACT or SAT, she gave them some kind of standardized test that was supposed to show the readiness to begin college level classes. But I would suspect her findings only tie into why they were funneling this kids into no show classes.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:07 pm

on that same page where Crotch found the basketball photo, I found a picture of Roy Vance

Image

who is Roy Vance?

lets go back to February of 2011

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&p=72364&hilit=vance#p72364

and you guys thought I just made this shit up as I go along
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by crotch » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:32 pm

eCat wrote:
crotch wrote:
hedge wrote:I'm sure Crotch is dearly hoping that the era of the baggy shorts is on the way out, too...
.....back to the good 'ol days

Image

that was my high school

no kidding - we retired those uniforms and put them in a display case. I used to walk by them every day on the way to gym.

Eldrey Miller was a member of that team and went on to be a school bus driver in later life. Kids new to wait a moment before getting on the bus because when he opened the door he always spit a chaw of tobacco out . Had a rhythm to it grabbing the big handle and spitting in one continuous motion
Didn't realize you were a Heath alumn, eCat. Were you familiar with Michael Carneal or his family?

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:41 pm

he killed my best friends niece. He was best man (my friend, not Carneal) in my wedding.

Its a small community though - everyone was touched by that in some way.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by hedge » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:55 pm

"Eldrey Miller was a member of that team and went on to be a school bus driver in later life."

AAA-UWWWWWW-DREEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-LUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
I want someone's ass blistered in the middle of Thanksgiving Square.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Saint » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:10 pm

eCat wrote:he killed my best friends niece. He was best man (my friend, not Carneal) in my wedding.

Its a small community though - everyone was touched by that in some way.

jesus

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by BigRedMan » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:09 pm

Bluecat wrote:
BigRedMan wrote:Mr. Farmer -savior of KY basketball and has his jersey retired if I recall - wonder what he is doing now? Probably not trying to drop the soap!! Some pipe hitting brother from Louisville is probably Rupping his arena as we speak. Damn you would think he would learn a lesson about being from Kentucky and trying to cheat the system.

Just remember:

Not if, but when.
Farmer is getting what he deserves. Remind me again which school was most recently put on probation, UK or IU?

Just a simple re-ordering of one phrase categorizes the frets and fears of two fanbases.

For UK, it's "Not if, but when" the hammer will fall on Calipari.

For IU, it's "Not when, but if" Crean will ever return the Hoosiers to relevance.

I guess you are right. I mean we did make the cover Sports Illustrated with our texting scandal. We also had all our games blocked out on television no matter if they were home or away.

Honestly, Crean probably will never get them over the hump but has rebuilt a program. I wonder who would take the KY job after they have been death sentenced for a decade?? I guess the girls team could get really good and use the facilities and arena properly.
Sure, I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is, I'm not. I honestly just feel that America is the best country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:10 pm

hedge wrote:"Eldrey Miller was a member of that team and went on to be a school bus driver in later life."

AAA-UWWWWWW-DREEEEEEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHH MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-LUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

Eldrey was a piece of work
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Saint » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:18 pm

Bus drivers almost always are

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by 10ac » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:24 pm

Yeah, look at Ralph Cramden.
Let 'er Blow!

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Jungle Rat » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:42 pm

worst debate ever

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by DooKSucks » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:50 pm

UNC-Chapel Hill leaders share facts on Willingham dataset, findings

Friday, Jan. 17, 2014



Details:

In a regular meeting of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Faculty Council, Chancellor Carol L. Folt and Executive Vice Chancellor and Provost James W. Dean, Jr. shared their initial findings from an evaluation of the dataset used by Mary Willingham, a student adviser. Folt and Dean shared facts that laid out a range of serious mistakes made by Willingham in the University’s analysis of her data.



“We take these allegations seriously,” Folt said. “Our goals are to be proactive in our analysis and solutions, to protect the privacy rights of individual students, and to apply the rigorous standards of assessment expected here at Carolina.”



The University’s Academic Support Program for Student Athletes (ASPSA), which serves Carolina’s 800 student-athletes with tutoring services and academic support and reports directly to the provost, used the Scholastic Abilities Test for Adults (SATA) as a tool to screen some student-athletes for potential learning differences/learning disabilities until 2012-2013. [The SATA is not affiliated with the SAT administered by the College Board.] Willingham has made claims regarding student-athletes’ reading grade equivalency based on SATA test results. Based on an initial University review, there is sufficient evidence to take issue with these claims, which is why Folt and Dean chose today to update the Faculty Council.



Key Points:

IRB Review Triggered by Federal Rules Regarding Use of Protected Data
Student Reading Levels Were Assessed by a Simple Vocabulary Test
Test Was Not Designed to Measure Reading Comprehension
Wrong Data From the Test Apparently Used To Predict Grade Equivalency
University Seeking Independent Analysis of Dataset



Background:

Last week, CNN reported about Willingham’s observations regarding reading levels for some football and basketball players based on SATA Reading Vocabulary Subtest results between 2004 and 2012. The findings neither represented the University’s position on the reading abilities of its student-athletes, nor reflected official data from the Office of Undergraduate Admissions. That office’s analysis found that between 2004 and 2012, the same time period examined by CNN, more than 97 percent of UNC-Chapel Hill first-year student-athletes met or exceeded the threshold for “college literacy” defined by CNN’s own experts. The 2012–2013 first-year cohorts fared even better, with only two of 321 student-athletes who entered through UNC’s special talent provision not meeting the threshold; all of the 2013 cohort met or exceeded the threshold.



Folt and Dean shared the following initial findings with faculty leaders:



1. Why the Institutional Review Board (IRB) rescinded its earlier determination that Willingham’s study was not “human subjects research:”

Every research university is required by the federal government to have a campus body, such as an IRB, to oversee human subjects research. UNC-Chapel Hill’s IRB is an independent governing body comprised of faculty researchers, knowledgeable staff and community members. Willingham’s analysis contradicted information she provided in her formal application to the federally regulated IRB in 2008. At that time, based on information she provided, the IRB determined that their oversight was not needed because 1) the data were represented as secondary (not collected directly from subjects) and 2) individuals could not be identified. De-identified means that the researchers themselves do not know the identities of subjects—not that the researchers do not disclose their subjects’ identities as part of their work. As a result, the IRB allowed Willingham to proceed without direct IRB oversight. Willingham collected and retained identified data, as her public comments over the past two weeks have confirmed, and this was the basis of the IRB’s decision to rescind its earlier determination.



2. Did the University have the dataset in question?

Since last August, Willingham had shared general information with statistics about enrollment patterns in a specific course and some additional information that she said reflected her own personal analysis about academic data and student-athletes.



Until January 13th, Willingham had not provided University officials with more detailed information about her dataset. A representative of the Provost’s Office and the chair of the Faculty Athletics Committee had previously unsuccessfully requested that data in the context of academic reform efforts underway on campus. Contrary to Willingham’s public statements, no full datasets had been delivered previously to the University.



University officials understand that a subset of data was provided to Baker Tilly, a consulting firm, and former N.C. Gov. James Martin by Willingham during her interview. Their 2012 investigation was completely independent, and the University did not receive the investigative materials from their work, including this dataset until recently. University officials also understand that Baker Tilly did take Willingham’s information into consideration in their final report and findings.



The Office of University Counsel also received information in 2010, but it was not the data. In fact, a handwritten note from Willingham accompanying the flash drive she provided stated she could not include the dataset until it was de-identified.



3. What was the test used to determine reading grade levels?

The test that Willingham used as the underpinning of her analysis and findings was the Scholastic Abilities Test for Adults (SATA), a Reading Vocabulary Subtest (not comprehension). The actual test instrument was one page with 25 questions, and typically requires 10 minutes to complete. The test instruction reads as follows: “Read the four words and identify one of three possible relations among the words. One possibility is that two words have the same meaning [or] they have opposite meanings [or] none of the words are related in meaning.”



According to the SATA Manual: “any standardized test purporting to provide a comprehensive measure of reading that does not assess sentence or passage comprehension should be considered inadequate.” (Wiederhold & Bryant, 1987, p. 96, quoted in SATA Manual on p. 28)



4. What data were used to determine grade levels?

Results of the SATA Reading Vocabulary Subtest can be expressed as raw scores, standard scores, percentiles, or grade equivalents. The dataset Willingham provided to the University included only standard scores, but the findings she has reported publicly misrepresent these standard scores as grade equivalents. This misrepresentation leads to serious errors in the findings. The initial University evaluation found Willingham’s calculations to be off by a factor of 10, which would dramatically change the findings she has shared publicly.



5. Do the data support claims that have been made?

The University’s initial evaluation has revealed a basic mistake in Willingham’s apparent methodology that led her to make serious accusations about the literacy levels of UNC-Chapel Hill student-athletes.



According to Dean, “Our judgment at this point is that claims made based on this dataset are nearly meaningless and grossly unfair to our students.”



According to Chancellor Folt, “Carolina has a world-renowned reputation for our research, and the work we have just reviewed does not reflect the quality and excellence found throughout the Carolina community.”



“I’m proud of the dedicated and talented students – and the work of our faculty and staff – who make us so proud of Carolina every day.”



6. What comes next?

The University will have Willingham’s raw dataset and apparent methodology independently evaluated and reported back to the University as soon as that process has been completed.



Related Links:

Admissions Backgrounder, http://uncnews.unc.edu/2014/01/16/97-un ... ews-story/

Chancellor Folt’s Statement to the Campus Community,

http://www.unc.edu/campus-updates/chanc ... to-campus/
I proudly took AFAM 040 at Carolina.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by eCat » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:29 pm

the old adage, you don't get in a war of words with people who buy ink by the gallon should hold true with UNC

-----------------------

Since September, UNC has been aware of CNN's reporting and was asked to comment several times including on Willingham's research. The university said it could not comment on her findings or methodology.


Not until after the story aired did the university release any data. On Thursday, it released an analysis of entrance exam scores that included all student-athletes --- not just the profit sport players. Based on that analysis, UNC said Willingham was wrong about the percentage of athletes who were not academically prepared for the rigors of college classes.

Included in the UNC analysis was a disclosure that 34 football or basketball players since 2004 scored below a 400 on the SAT verbal test, or below a 16 on the ACT reading and English test. At those levels, experts have told CNN a student would not be able to read a college text book.

UNC, again, disputes that expert opinion, and says all but four of those athletes are in, left in or graduated in good academic standing.

It's not the first time UNC has faced questions about the quality of its academics for athletes.

Two years ago, a scandal was unearthed where students, many of them athletes, were given grades for classes they didn't attend, and where they did nothing more than turn in a single paper.

The local newspaper, The News & Observer, did extensive reporting on that no-show class scandal and, based on public records and interviews, uncovered how counselors with the athletes' tutoring program used the fake classes to help keep academically challenged athletes eligible to play sports.

Willingham, who has been vocal in her criticism since that scandal was uncovered, informed the university of her latest research as far back as August.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

as I said before, in an attempt to save athletics, UNC is intentionally trashing their academic reputation. Now they are admitting that they are graduating students who aren't capable of getting a college education - not only are they admitting it, its a source of pride for them. This is why administrators shouldn't attempt to explain away researchers data. They are badly mismatched.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Ostensibly Hoops

Post by Owlman » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:31 pm

Your turn Dooksucks
My Dad is my hero still.

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