Florida State Seminoles

[hedge]

But I do agree that there are two Americas now, certainly a lot of the difference being defined by economics, but also by politics. Seems like half the people hate the other half, and yet we're always hearing shit about "buy American". Why buy American if you probably hate half (or more) of the people who are making the products, whether it's b/c they are conservative christian Trump supporters or liberal atheist abortionists? Either way, you hate them, so why would you care anything about supporting them? Seems like you'd almost rather buy foreign to fuck those Americans that you hate out of a job...

[Bklyn]

Good (long) post. As a black man in America with a certain level of wealth accumulated, I know both those worlds well. No matter where you are on the economic ladder, if you're a Black American (not African or Caribbean) you know someone in your close family in poverty or dealing with incarceration. So, I see, live, understand and travel to both of those nations. That's why I wasn't TOTALLY shocked at the Trump victory (though I wasn't expecting it). This stratification has always existed, but it is now harder for whites to hop that divide, so the breach is more acute.

We need to figure out how to close that breach, but I think (like hedge just posted) our political parties are too polarized to ever really address it...and, ironically, Trump probably was best positioned to impact it, but he's not qualified nor savvy enough to get it done (IMHO).

[hedge]

Everybody gives lips service to bipartisanship, but there are plenty of folks on both sides who have huge enonomic interest in keeping the masses angrily divided...

[Toemeesleather]

We were pretty divided in the 60s-early 70s. That changed, this too, shall pass.....just not in one or two presidential terms.

[eCat]

the worst infrastructure I've seen is not out in the rural countryside but in places like urban Michigan.


There is just so much of it in a small concentrated area and all of it gets used so heavily.

[hedge]

The roads around here are fine...

[eCat]

I've seen both sides of the economic spectrum as well and I'd like to think that I identify with the have nots even though a politician would probably consider me a "have" at this point in my life.

I won't argue that education is key, but I don't believe you're going to grow the middle class (by percentage) by pushing education, even to the extent that its cheap or even free.

Sure that will increase the number of people that attend college, but what will that do? raise the overall percentage of college attendees to 50% and maybe we'll see the number of college graduates raise to 35%?

We have to address the 60% of people in this country that are not interested, capable or find it necessary to get a post secondary education. And we have to get past this stigma that making a sandwich in a sub shop is somehow less of a job than doing some monotonous job on an assembly line.

The only way to do that with a lean toward capitalism is make the worker be in demand - and it will never happen in a country where we have a porous border looking the other way when we need a roofer, landscaper or dishwasher for the lowest wages we can pay due to an influx of cheap labor.

I do realize that technically unemployment is at 4.7% or whatever and for all useful purposes that is considered full employment but that doesn't address the wage issue.

Perhaps with Trump in office and the threat of deportation, the slowdown in people crossing the border will result in a noticeable lack of workers to the extent that these places will be forced to pay $12 - $14 an hour , well above the minimum wage to retain workers.

I am convinced this is the *only* way, without some socialism revolution where we tax the wealthiest at 70% to build back our middle class.

Racism in this country is at its heart economics. Give this country's poor the opportunity to climb out of poverty without taking on thousands of dollars in education debt and this country is a better place. It seems simple to understand but there will be people demanding to let millions of immigrants into this country without any concept of what obligation we have to the people that are currently trying to survive in this country.

Where I break from many republicans and 20%ers is that I don't place blame for where these people are in life. Not all of them are going to rise up - in a free country, we're going to have poverty, we're going to have failure, but if someone is willing to show up and work 40 hours a week or whatever the standard is, and live life responsibly, as a citizen in this country they should be rewarded with the ability to chase the American dream. Doesn't mean you're going to buy a house when you're 19, but it should mean that working a job gives you a chance to cover the basics.

Hell, that's why immigrants want to come here in the first place, but its a false promise that the current system is making to its citizens.

That's Trumps appeal to the supporters. America first - Americans first.

And for those that see it that way, there is no racism with that viewpoint.

[sardis]

I am as much a capitalist as they come, and even I think we should raise the minimum wage. I think we give corporate America a deal to lower tax rate on business income, 20-25%, for an increase of minimum wage to $12.00-15.00 or whatever it takes to get people out of the EIC.

We have the economists today who either espouse to Keynes (D) or Smith(R) and not realizing that those guys lived in a different time and their theories were applicable to an economy that we no longer have. Technology has changed everything and we need out of the box thinkers when it comes to the economy and a government that is pragmatic and not tied to an old economic ideology. I am hoping Trump will be that leader because he doesn't seem to be tied to anything.

[DooKSucks]

"and one of the easiest ways to see it is in our infrastructure: our roads and bridges look more like those in Thailand or Venezuela than the Netherlands or Japan."

You know, I hear this all the time, but I never see it. I suppose there are plenty of bridges out there that are technically not up to current standards, but I can't remember the last time I heard of one collapsing or people being injured because of it. Also, I live in eastern NC, certainly one of the poorer regions of the country, and the roads look fine to me, and I drive around a lot in rural areas. Certainly all of roads in towns (of whatever size) are up to par. But to hear some folks tell it, the roads all over the country are worse today than before the introduction of asphalt. They act like everybody is riding around on pothole ridden dirt roads that turn into mud swamps when it rains. I just don't see it, anywhere...

Go through rural areas of SC. You will see noticeable differences on comparable roads. NC, despite budget cuts, still does a decent job of maintaining its roads.

[crashcourse]

brownback fuked our state

60% of roads are rated as "poor

I have a 20 minute drive to work

last 10 minutes I spend dodging potential potholes and running over bumps--but I know of at least 10 projects closing roadways going on right now

just not the one I take to work

part of the cure is going to be more good paying jobs available because mor e of the baby boomers will retire or die in the next 20 years. not sure mileneals and the current crop of workers is motivated enough to work hard though

[10ac]

I don't see it either. Plus, I miss suspension bridges. Jumping off the top rail
Was a rite of passage when I was a teenager.

[hedge]

Hopefully during a drought...

[Bklyn]

"and one of the easiest ways to see it is in our infrastructure: our roads and bridges look more like those in Thailand or Venezuela than the Netherlands or Japan."

You know, I hear this all the time, but I never see it. I suppose there are plenty of bridges out there that are technically not up to current standards, but I can't remember the last time I heard of one collapsing or people being injured because of it. Also, I live in eastern NC, certainly one of the poorer regions of the country, and the roads look fine to me, and I drive around a lot in rural areas. Certainly all of roads in towns (of whatever size) are up to par. But to hear some folks tell it, the roads all over the country are worse today than before the introduction of asphalt. They act like everybody is riding around on pothole ridden dirt roads that turn into mud swamps when it rains. I just don't see it, anywhere...

A bridge between DE and NJ was just closed due to wear in Jan. In NYC, the bridges/roads don't close totally but they have closed portions to repair over the last few years with Federal Stimulus money. You don't have to see collapsing bridges, though, for roadways or bridges to need repair.

[10ac]

Then I would not be posting... C'mon Hedge, you're letting us down.

Here is the bridge we used to jump off. I didn't dive just jump. A friend of mine was killed, collapsed lung.

[10ac]

It was tough for two cars to pass.

[10ac]

The dam is to the right of the bridge. A friend fell off it and lived with just a crushed foot and scrapes. If you saw the movie the Specialist with Sharon Stone and Sylvester Stalone, this is the dam that the land rover was blown off of at the beginning. The filming cause me a 30 mile round trip to the boat ramp

[img2]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/10ac/dam.jpg[/img2]

[hedge]

"If you saw the movie the Specialist with Sharon Stone and Sylvester Stalone, this is the dam that the land rover was blown off of at the beginning."

I was thinking you were going to say Deliverance or Ode to Billie Joe...

[eCat]

I am as much a capitalist as they come, and even I think we should raise the minimum wage. I think we give corporate America a deal to lower tax rate on business income, 20-25%, for an increase of minimum wage to $12.00-15.00 or whatever it takes to get people out of the EIC.

We have the economists today who either espouse to Keynes (D) or Smith(R) and not realizing that those guys lived in a different time and their theories were applicable to an economy that we no longer have. Technology has changed everything and we need out of the box thinkers when it comes to the economy and a government that is pragmatic and not tied to an old economic ideology. I am hoping Trump will be that leader because he doesn't seem to be tied to anything.

I think the market should set the wage but you can't do that when there is growing demand for workers and the federal government along with big business believes that increased immigration is the answer. This country is so anti-union that there will never be a voice for the worker again. The federal government determining minimum wage 15 years behind what it should be set at is not that voice.

[Professor Tiger]

The infrastructure in ATL seems pretty good, except when stoners set fire to a major interstate highway and it collapses.

The biggest example of crumbling infrastructure everybody talks about is LaGuardia airport. I layed over there for the first time a few years ago and was shocked. It was small, dirty and dim. I couldn't believe one of the two airports of one of the greatest cities in the world was such a dump.

From LaGuardia I flew to Dublin. Their airport was modern, clean, spacious and bright.

I asked myself which country was a superpower and which country was Mayberry?

[hedge]

"The biggest example of crumbling infrastructure everybody talks about is LaGuardia airport. I layed over there for the first time a few years ago and was shocked. It was small, dirty and dim. I couldn't believe one of the two airports of one of the greatest cities in the world was such a dump."

Talk about First World problems...