Florida State Seminoles

[10ac]

Trump has had twice as much media coverage than both Dems. Any publicity is good publicity....

[eCat]

I'd love to see Trump debate Hillary

If she gets too surly with him, he'll just ask her why she gets to run for President while everybody else who passes around top secret, classified information goes to prison.

then he'll drop the mic and walk off the stage

[Bklyn]

I don't know if the op ed you reference is from Huma Abeddin (sp?), but she's married to a Jew. Any votes Hillary had in the Heartland (which she honestly doesn't need, outside of Ohio) won't be impacted by an op-ed with Islamic pride in the content.

Personally, Trumps supporters have always been a large part of the Republican party, they were just always stashed behind the curtain. So, the GOP could count on their vote but not really have their voice as a part of the political discussion at all times. However, the media landscape has changed in the past decade where general mistrust of the media has exploded and the likes of Twitter and Instagram bypass the traditional media dynamic. It's to the point now where some outlets are simply reporting what politicians are saying via their Twitter feed...all the while millions of others are getting that statement at the same time because they are followers of the person. As a result, the media doesn't have the ability to minimize or manipulate these viewpoints like they used to (you see so much Third Reich symbolism that media outlets are doing the past few days with Trump, but it's getting little momentum. Years ago, those covers and photos would be all that exist of the narrative, now it's just a minor part of the public tapestry). The GOP is freaking out over this whole thing because they can't control him via media, money or message.

Don't sleep. Hillary is loving that she is not getting any media coverage right now. It's a long walk she has to travel between now and the election because she has no significant challenger. The public would get tired of looking at her face if she was getting 24 hour coverage. Now, Santa Barbera happens and she is barely even mentioned. That really is doing her a favor. Trump is her tailwind at this stage.

[Bklyn]

On a different angle of this Trump discussion, I do find it frustrating that if you held every single fact of this San Bernadino story in place but changed the motive from religious to workplace anger, then nothing would be done or said about it outside of the normal "thoughts and prayers" rhetoric. It says more about us as a country than anything. It's not surprising or unexpected, but it doesn't make it any less disappointing.

[eCat]

sure

if it was actually workplace anger

Workplace anger isn't premeditated - at least not the to degree this was planned out.

its also not done by a husband and wife team- its the act of a single disgruntled employee

Workplace anger is random but we've taken steps over the years to prevent it based on the profile of someone who is perceived to be capable of being violent at the workplace. But taking measures to prevent radicalization of muslims is taboo?

c'mon man - I respect your opinion as its obvious you have your act together - but this isn't racism and just a fringe element of the tea party that is backing Trump. Even after Iran taking hostages, Americans weren't concerned with Mosques or Muslims living as Americans in this country. There hasn't been an undercurrent of anti-muslim viewpoints around America for the last 60 years.

You simply can't live thru what we've gone thru in the past 14 years and then not have genuine concerns about the stability and community of Muslims. External events - whether we are the reason for them or not is irrelevant - has put us in a position where a very small percentage of Muslims now identify with radicalization. And Muslim is the common denominator.

This isn't like some Christian who is anti abortion and in return kills a doctor or blows up an abortion clinic. As a result of their rhetoric, there have been maybe a total of a dozen deaths in 30 years as a result of Christian actions

Its not a random crazy nutjob whose dog is talking to him and decides he is going to kill innocents for Satan - with 1.2 billion muslims and that small percentage I mentioned earlier of those being radicalized against Westerners, can be potentially millions of people.

I'm not going to lose a moments sleep for someone who wants to label me as one of the simple minded above ground pool type who isn't educated or cultured enough to see how close minded I am.

Our government has been telling us we're at war since 9/11 against an enemy that wears no common uniform, has no common border and no solidarity to a flag, region, leader or even common enemy. They span races, cultures and can be both domestic or foreign.

The *only* thing they have in common is their religion - and their numbers are so great, they are a threat to every western country in the world.

The media and politicians have created this environment where if you make a statement that can be interpreted to be racial or anti-religious or misogynistic, whatever - that they can call you on it and immediately you'll grovel and beg for forgiveness - and Trump is telling them to fuck off every chance he gets when they try, and where they once thought they were kingmakers and controlled the message, now they see that no matter what they say or do, Trump only rises - the more they talk about him in their efforts to bring him down, the more exposure he gets, the more dedicated his supporters become.

Its still very early in this election process and its quite likely that Trump will run off the rails but it won't be because the media, or Washington , or those in America who think they can go to twitter over some perceived intolerance and get the backing to bring him down. Trumps impact is yet to be determined, but he's doing something that no other politicians in recent times has done - and he's brought topics that were once taboo mandated by liberals and the media into the forefront. I like the effect its having on the country. Its like blowing away a fog that's been covering the country and people can see off into the distance on their own. People may not like what they see but its time to address our humanity and stop trying to live in a Coca Cola commercial.

[eCat]

fwiw, I'm glad you started posting again

[eCat]

I don't know her background, I'm sure at some point at some time in her life she's done something that disqualifies her from admiration

but I am impressed with Katrina Pierson

[youtube]d1Ewz6UsGAA[/youtube]

[crashcourse]

she looks good to me


her boss keeps mouthing off and he's is going to get assassinated beore he even makes it to the first primary

barring all the latinos and muslims from this country pisses off about 3/4 of the globe.

but if he did the biddings of the clinton and came in just to stir things up for a Clinton eventual victory he couldnt have done a better job

[Bklyn]

sure

if it was actually workplace anger

Workplace anger isn't premeditated - at least not the to degree this was planned out.

its also not done by a husband and wife team- its the act of a single disgruntled employee

Workplace anger is random but we've taken steps over the years to prevent it based on the profile of someone who is perceived to be capable of being violent at the workplace. But taking measures to prevent radicalization of muslims is taboo?

c'mon man - I respect your opinion as its obvious you have your act together - but this isn't racism and just a fringe element of the tea party that is backing Trump. Even after Iran taking hostages, Americans weren't concerned with Mosques or Muslims living as Americans in this country. There hasn't been an undercurrent of anti-muslim viewpoints around America for the last 60 years.

You simply can't live thru what we've gone thru in the past 14 years and then not have genuine concerns about the stability and community of Muslims. External events - whether we are the reason for them or not is irrelevant - has put us in a position where a very small percentage of Muslims not identify with radicalization. And Muslim is the common denominator.

This isn't like some Christian who is anti abortion and in return kills a doctor or blows up an abortion clinic. As a result of their rhetoric, there have been maybe a total of a dozen deaths in 30 years as a result of Christian actions

Its not a random crazy nutjob whose dog is talking to him and decides he is going to kill innocents for Satan - with 1.2 billion muslims and that small percentage I mentioned earlier of those being radicalized against Westerners, can be potentially millions of people.

I'm not going to lose a moments sleep for someone who wants to label me as one of the simple minded above ground pool type who isn't educated or cultured enough to see how close minded I am.

Our government has been telling us we're at war since 9/11 against an enemy that wears no common uniform, has no common border and no solidarity to a flag, region, leader or even common enemy. They span races, cultures and can be both domestic or foreign.

The *only* thing they have in common is their religion - and their numbers are so great, they are a threat to every western country in the world.

Well, I think you are slightly coming at my frustration from a bad angle. My frustration is not on the Muslim side, per se, of responses. I have not problem with certain actions and approaches with respect to mitigating terrorist activity. I was largely saying that it's unequal, to my taste (I guess you are justifying that inequality and I will respect it from you...although I won't ever agree). I think that mass shootings can be addressed, whether from crazy people or Islamic terrorists and we only decide to focus on one side as if there is no solution that hits both. You are definitely a huge gun proponent and I am not. So, my thoughts on the discourse and the policy needs will never align with yours. It is what it is there.

Just to be clear, though, my indictment against the general American public has nothing to do with me thinking they are uneducated racists (well...there are a lot out there, though. Twitter has confirmed it for me). My indictment is that they are frustratingly hypocritical about looking at the commonalities of gun violence across all paradigms.

(and yeah, you are my favorite counterpoint guy...so I'm glad to add posting back into my rotation)

[eCat]

she looks good to me


her boss keeps mouthing off and he's is going to get assassinated beore he even makes it to the first primary

barring all the latinos and muslims from this country pisses off about 3/4 of the globe.

but if he did the biddings of the clinton and came in just to stir things up for a Clinton eventual victory he couldnt have done a better job

I said that yesterday - Trump is going to get George Wallaced before this is over.

[eCat]

Well, I think you are slightly coming at my frustration from a bad angle. My frustration is not on the Muslim side, per se, of responses. I have not problem with certain actions and approaches with respect to mitigating terrorist activity. I was largely saying that it's unequal, to my taste (I guess you are justifying that inequality and I will respect it from you...although I won't ever agree). I think that mass shootings can be addressed, whether from crazy people or Islamic terrorists and we only decide to focus on one side as if there is no solution that hits both. You are definitely a huge gun proponent and I am not. So, my thoughts on the discourse and the policy needs will never align with yours. It is what it is there.

Just to be clear, though, my indictment against the general American public has nothing to do with me thinking they are uneducated racists (well...there are a lot out there, though. Twitter has confirmed it for me). My indictment is that they are frustratingly hypocritical about looking at the commonalities of gun violence across all paradigms.

(and yeah, you are my favorite counterpoint guy...so I'm glad to add posting back into my rotation)

I get the gun violence thing , I really do - but 3,000 people at the world trade center didn't die because of a gun at the hands of a muslim.

Muslims don't strap AR-15s onto their chest with a cell phone detonator and run into a crowd, they don't bury AR-15's beside the road and kill soldiers in humvees, they don't set AR-15's filled with bb's to blow off legs and arms at the Boston marathon

and not to sound like an NRA spokesman, but had Tareek and his wife believed that many of their fellow employees were carrying concealed weapons at the workplace, would they have still made the decision to go there and commit their terrorist act? Would their fear of being shot in the head before ever killing their first person made them choose another target?

What would happen if Tareek and his wife didn't get access to a gun? - would they have decided not commit jihad and just lived their lives as devout Muslims?

To specifically address my point - the issue with Tareek and his wife - they would have pursued killing as many people at work as humanly possible with or without guns.

To me, that's the hypocrisy -to believe that people who are willing to die in an effort to kill as many Americans as possible would be circumvented in their efforts to kill if guns were hard to get, or that guns they could get were less lethal.

The gun may be an effective tool or it may be a convenience factor, but it doesn't address the fundamental issue - that these people have made a decision to kill no matter the personal cost to them.

And unlike the kid in Sandy Hook or any person who brandishes a weapon in the traditional sense, the radicalized muslims have a network to support them - Those brothers in Boston couldn't have made a pressure cooker bomb if their lives depended on it until they got into the radicalized Muslim network. Which goes back to the Tareek issue - A fertilizer truck could have leveled the place. They were more than capable of doing such an act and doing it successfully.

They were just lazy and chose guns.

Now when it comes to gun control discussion about everyday crimes, I'm more than willing to have that discussion. The dirty secret is that regional or city gun control will never work because all a person has to do is drive 40 miles and pick up an assault rifle out in the sticks somewhere. But those aren't the weapons used in everyday crimes, its hand guns

And America is not going to ban handguns. Its a non starter. They are the essential personal protection weapon and the poster child of the intent of the second amendment.

[crashcourse]

450 murders is chiraq most black on black most with guns is about the same rate as it was in 1919

homicide and violentcrime rate rose in the firs 90 years of the 20th centrury pealking in the lat 80s and has declined since to about half oif what it was then despite 10x more guns or maybe because of it

[Bklyn]

I find it funny every time you call that dude "Tareek."

Which goes back to the Tareek issue - A fertilizer truck could have leveled the place. They were more than capable of doing such an act and doing it successfully.

Actually, if they would have done that, they would have most likely been caught. The government monitors large fertilizer purchases. That's how that dude got caught in Denver.

Those brothers in Boston couldn't have made a pressure cooker bomb if their lives depended on it until they got into the radicalized Muslim network.

The older Tsarnaev (sp?) brother definitely got radicalized via his Chechnyan connections. I thought they built their bombs, though, from standard "Anarchist Handbook" shit, not terror training.

To me, that's the hypocrisy -to believe that people who are willing to die in an effort to kill as many Americans as possible would be circumvented in their efforts to kill if guns were hard to get, or that guns they could get were less lethal.

No, from my perspective, the hypocrisy is looking at shutting off their ability to interact on social media, restricting the possibility of flying or transacting in financial matters via OFAC, of monitoring fertilizer purchases, of legislating ways around due process and privacy laws but having a background check or waiting period for a weapon (particularly semi-autos and high capacity firearms) is a non-starter. That is frustrating and hypocritical, personally.

had Tareek and his wife believed that many of their fellow employees were carrying concealed weapons at the workplace, would they have still made the decision to go there and commit their terrorist act?

I really have no idea, obviously, but I think they went in to that party with some semblance of body armor on...so they were at least preparing to potentially engage in other armed individuals. They were prepared to die that day. They probably could have done more damage at the mall during this season with all the pipe bombs they built but for some reason chose to do guns and a co-worker holiday party (that reality may or may not be supportive of my argument, I don't know...just typing under stream of consciousness. If it wasn't for all the deaths, there is a "war on Christmas" joke in there). Maybe if he was in London (with highly restrictive gun laws) he would just have simply swung a few knives at patrons on the Tube. It's impossible to credibly argue a negative.

I don't think you can stop religious radicals any more than I believe you can stop a crazy person from shooting a government official in an Arizona mall parking lot. Syed Farook would have done what he did, in some way, What I am saying is, I recognize the inability of stopping these things...they are inevitable. I stay frustrated at the fact that all reasonable hurdles are not in play. That's my point.

[eCat]

We took the liberty to make some enquiries concerning the ground of their pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation.

The Ambassador answer us that it was founded on the laws of their Prophet; that it was written in their Koran; that all nations who not have acknowledged their authority were sinners; that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they take as prisoners; and that every Muslim who was slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

[Bklyn]

ISIS is as close to a Koranic "literalist" sect as there is out there. It is a big part of their appeal to foreigners who originally migrated to the State...and it is also why the President initially called them a JV team. They've modified their approach, however.

[Saint]

I agree he is horrible for the party but the party has been a steaming pile since...well…Reagan was elected to be honest.

FYP

[BigRedMan]

Didn't Jimmy Carter stop refugees from coming into the country when the Iranians high jacked that plane??? So, why wasn't he pulled over the coals ???

[hedge]

Reagan would never even sniff the republican nomination these days. He'd be considered a flaming liberal by the tea party crowd...

[AlabamAlum]

Nixon would, too. No doubt.

[hedge]

Barry Goldwater would make some noise, though...