Florida State Seminoles

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:21 pm

hedge wrote:"in this case the law was created unjust because it steps on his basic rights as an American defined in the constitution. We can debate whether heroin use falls into the category of pursuit of happiness and god given rights, but heroin isn't spelled out."

There are so many things that weren't spelled out b/c IMO the founding fathers never conceived that things like eating meat or smoking tobacco or drinking whiskey or using heroin could ever be regarded as something government would have any say over. Things like religion and freedom of speech, etc., had been such a point of contention for centuries in Europe they felt the need to spell it out. If anything, it seems to me that the things that weren't spelled out should be even more protected against government interference than the ones they did spell out. Obviously it hasn't played out that way...
I agree. If the government made the decision to make heroin legal because its a personal choice, then so be it.

My objection to heroin is not from the personal freedom standpoint, its from a standpoint of how it affects me as a citizen when I have to deal with a junkie.

Now if we made heroin legal then I'd push for the states to pass laws that said anyone addicted to heroin commits a felony, there should be a mandatory 40 years in prison. Then we pair personal freedom to personal responsibility. Also I'd want a 3 strikes and your out policy in my state regarding overdose meaning if you overdose 3 times its a felony.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:22 pm

hedge wrote:"I firmly believe that whether its legal or not, people should not be allowed to take heroin."

Did you mean to say that even if it was legal, you don't think people should take heroin? I agree with that. But if it's legal, then by definition people are allowed to take it. At that point, "should" doesn't have anything to do with it...
that's splitting hairs but yea, even if it was legal I'd still believe they shouldn't be allowed to take it, but of course in that case my belief would be irrelevant to the actual execution of the law.
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by hedge » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:37 pm

"Also I'd want a 3 strikes and your out policy in my state regarding overdose meaning if you overdose 3 times its a felony."

That would be the same as saying if you got cancer from smoking cigarettes it should be a felony...
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Professor Tiger » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:50 pm

CNN = Counterfeit News Network
Last edited by Professor Tiger on Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:56 pm

hedge wrote:"Also I'd want a 3 strikes and your out policy in my state regarding overdose meaning if you overdose 3 times its a felony."

That would be the same as saying if you got cancer from smoking cigarettes it should be a felony...
I don't see it that way.

The argument that cigarette addiction is the equivalent of heroin addiction is not valid.

First, we knew early on - like going back to 1890's the detrimental effects of heroin addiction. Of course we understood tobacco caused long term damage but it wasn't until say the 1940's when life expectancy caught up to seeing the damages of a lifetime of smoking, we started connecting the dots. Secondly as our awareness of the long term effects of cigarette addiction came into focus we incrementally stepped up the cost of being a cigarette smoker. Not selling to minors, warning labels and increased taxes.

The true solution would be to define the cost of cigarette smokers to society and then equate the cigarette taxes to that cost. If the cost is $4b to society, then implement $4b in taxes tied to cigarette sales.

Heroin would have that same structure, but the difference is the detrimental affects of heroin addiction to society outside the person. No cigarette smoker ever broke into my car to support their habit. If we saw criminal behavior associated with cigarette addiction, then I'd push for similar laws.

The overdose issue is more about your choices to be an irresponsible heroin addict and now you are competing for limited resources. Its no different than fining someone for wearing a seatbelt
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Professor Tiger » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:58 pm

hedge wrote: If anything, it seems to me that the things that weren't spelled out should be even more protected against government interference than the ones they did spell out.
That was a near-perfect recitation of the 10th Amendment of the Constitution. It's one of my favorites. Too bad it has been effectively nullified over the past 100 years by both parties.
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Saint » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:08 pm

Seems to me that all the guy had to do was say he was too busy to make a cake for them but instead he admitted that it was because he doesn't care for cock gobblers, which would be discrimination. Since he was too dumb to make the obvious move (which makes sense because he looks like the Kris Kristofferson character in a shitty TV Christmas movie), he needs to be punished for being a dumbass. Hate all you want but if you're stupid enough to announce it because you have convictions, well, pay the price, motherfucker

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:13 pm

I suspect he agreed to make a cake for them until they got to the Happy Marriage Adam and Steve
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Saint » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:04 pm

Was that not obvious when they walked in? Besides, he still could have said he just realized he was busy instead of outright admitting discrimination. You can get away with a lot of shit if you don't announce it to everyone, a fact kids today on social media haven't grasped

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:15 pm

Saint wrote:Was that not obvious when they walked in? Besides, he still could have said he just realized he was busy instead of outright admitting discrimination. You can get away with a lot of shit if you don't announce it to everyone, a fact kids today on social media haven't grasped

probably that whole honesty thing getting in the way of them damned ole christians
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Tree » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:39 pm

so in this case you side with the government on who is a protected class of citizen to the extent that you'd override the constitutional rights of someone
No Constitutional rights are being violated. But yes, I agree with anti-discrimination laws on this one. The idea in an enlightened society is to get rid of institutional bigotry, regardless of whether or not it's endorsed by your deity of choice.
For example, lets say Donald Trump and the Republican congress decides that people convicted of violent crimes should be able to purchase a gun and we do away with the background check, because its discriminatory against the second amendment which makes no mention of qualifiers in an Americans right to own a gun. I don't know where you fall on gun rights and the 2A but I have a feeling you'd object to this definition of discrimination in society.
There's a SCOTUS ruling on how the 2nd Amendment is limited when it comes to mental illness. Neither Trump nor Congress have any standing to overturn this. The basic difference is that seriously mentally ill folks with guns is something we don't want in our society.
The reality is this isn't about what the government declares as a law, its about your personal preference on what the "right" thing to do by a business owner is.
Yes my opinions are based on personal standards and morals. I also recognize that this whole debate starts and finishes with the 14th Amendment. A business doesn't get to discriminate against minorities just because the business owner happens to follow a religion that promotes bigotry.
And just as with gun owners, whenever a gun owner carries out some atrocity, the government is the solution types want to enact legislation to punish all gun owners for the actions of a small percentage, in this case, an insignificant percentage of gun owners .
I don't want that. I think gun control is a bit of a role reversal, where liberals utilize fear tactics that are normally the domain of the right. Basically any gun regs need to be hashed out in the cool and calm light of day.
Thats how I see the discrimination laws. Somewhere in the vast nation of ours, some business owners - it might be one, might be community, it might even be an entire town, perhaps its even an segment of an industry decides based on whatever their value set is that they will not serve a specific segment of society. And because of that decision, the government is the solution types declare all business owners must forego their constitutional rights. Now we are at a point where we are trying to define homosexuality, as a trait or choice that cannot be tested or validated as a protected class of citizen in our effort to have the government enforce everyone doing the right thing.
There is nothing in the Constitution about business owners having a right to discriminate. Free exercise of religion relates to worship and belief and was not meant to allow discrimination of minorities in the marketplace. Frankly the premise that is was is absurd.
And no, buying a cake from *any* baker is not a basic constitutional right.
But equal protection under the law is.
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:13 pm

There is nothing in the Constitution about business owners having a right to discriminate. Free exercise of religion relates to worship and belief and was not meant to allow discrimination of minorities in the marketplace. Frankly the premise that is was is absurd.
you don't get to decide that. I'm quite certain the framers of the constitution believed that if you are compelled to do work that you believe is against your religion, then that is religious persecution which is the exact thing freedom of religion was meant to stop.
There is nothing in the Constitution about business owners having a right to discriminate
there is nothing about discrimination to begin with either way, especially given some of the framers who wrote it were slave owners.

and finally there isn't any debate about his constitutional right to freedom of religion being stepped on here, the debate is state laws and commerce overriding religious freedom in regards to civil rights. Its been acknowledged and has been precedent for about 30 years now.

you're shooting blanks on this one
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Cletus » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:37 pm

'Do all religious beliefs get the same protection?

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Professor Tiger » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:38 pm

Here’s all Christian bakers need to do to avoid being bludgeoned by Enlightened Tolerant Pluralist Inclusive goon squads.

Announce that they will no longer make wedding cakes. Rather, they will only produce works of art that just happen to be disk-shaped and made of baked flour and sugary ingredients. They are not only aesthetically pleasing to the eye, but they also happen to be edible, although the artist discourages anyone actually eating them.

Each one of those products is a unique result of the creative genius of the artist. If the artist chooses to create a piece that says, “Congratulations Brad and Janice!” then that is beautiful. But if his muse does not stir the artist to create a piece that says, “Congratulations Brad and Steve!” then the spirit moves in mysterious ways.

If the artist puts the Brad and Janice piece up for sale in his studio, that also happens the look a lot like a bakery, then we should all heartily support an artist supporting himself with the sale of his craftsmanship, right? And if some guy named Brad decides to buy that objet d’art, or better yet, COMMISSION a piece that suits his aesthetic taste, then shouldn’t we all financially support the arts?

If any government official or agency tries to hinder the creative freedom of the artist, then that official or agency should be vilified as a censor terrorist trying to stifle the creative spirit.

Amiright?
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by 10ac » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:32 am

yep
Let 'er Blow!

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by eCat » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:13 am

more perspective on the fake email story run by CNN, picked up and independently verified by CBS and then independently verified by MSNBC. This is actually the 4th story "correction" by CNN this year alone in regards to Donald Trump (or staff) and 4 of 7 stories they misrepresented the facts to make him/them look bad when nothing had happened.

-------

Is that what happened here? Did these “multiple sources” who fed not just CNN but also MSNBC and CBS completely false information do so deliberately and in bad faith? Until these news outlets provide an accounting of what happened – what one might call “minimal journalistic transparency” – it’s impossible to say for certain. But right now, it’s very difficult to imagine a scenario where multiple sources all fed the wrong date to multiple media outlets innocently and in good faith.

If this were, in fact, a deliberate attempt to cause a false and highly inflammatory story to be reported, then these media outlets have an obligation to expose who the culprits are – just as the Washington Post did last week to the woman making false claims about Roy Moore (it was much easier in that case because the source they exposed was a nobody-in-DC, rather than someone on whom they rely for a steady stream of stories, the way CNN and MSNBC rely on Democratic members of the Intelligence Committee). By contrast, if this were just an innocent mistake, then these media outlets should explain how such an implausible sequence of events could possibly have happened.

Thus far, these media corporations are doing the opposite of what journalists ought to do: rather than informing the public about what happened and providing minimal transparency and accountability for themselves and the high-level officials who caused this to happen, they are hiding behind meaningless, obfuscating statements crafted by PR executives and lawyers.....................................................................


All media outlets, of course, will make mistakes. The Intercept certainly has made our share, as have all outlets. And it’s particularly natural, inevitable, for mistakes to be made on a highly complicated, opaque story like the question of the relationship between Trump and the Russians, and questions relating to how WikiLeaks obtained DNC and Podesta emails. That is all to be expected.

But what one should expect with journalistic “mistakes” is that they sometimes go in one direction, and other times go in the other direction. That’s exactly what has not happened here. Virtually every false story published goes only in one direction: to be as inflammatory and damaging as possible on the Trump/Russia story and about Russia particularly. At some point, once “mistakes” all start going in the same direction, toward advancing the same agenda, they cease looking like mistakes.

----------------------

https://theintercept.com/2017/12/09/the ... -happened/

How can journalists and news outlets so flamboyantly act offended when they’re attacked as being “Fake News” when this is the conduct behind which they hide when they get caught disseminating inc
I like the stinky pinky but only up to the first knuckle, I do not want a GD thumb up there--I've told her multiple times and I always catch her when she tries to pull a fast one---it's my butthole for Chrissakes I'm gonna know--so cut out the BS.

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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by DooKSucks » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:41 pm

I'm sorry, but thank goodness for elitists. This country would be shit if left to the yokels and not to the likes of JFK, Eisenhower, the Roosevelts, Obama, Clinton, HW Bush, etc.
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by hedge » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:52 pm

Clinton was a yokel, but to his credit he didn't want to remain one...
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Professor Tiger » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:48 pm

In this country, at least for the moment, the yokels elect the elites - which is a good thing since at least half of the latter are complete and utter idiots.
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Re: Florida State Seminoles

Post by Saint » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:18 am

Professor Tiger wrote:In this country, at least for the moment, the yokels elect the elites - which is a good thing since at least half of the latter are complete and utter idiots.
Still a better percentage than the former, of which 100 percent are complete and utter idiots and getting worse by the day. The problem is that everyone started having an opinion about politics (I blame cable news first and its bigger, stupider cousin, the internet). Outside of Watergate, most people quit caring about politics once the Vietnam War ended. It got all fired up again in the late '80s and politicians realized that once people were paying attention again, they could tell them anything and they would believe it.

Now it's just armies of idiots on both sides and these thieving, lying asswipes in DC, in state capitals and on local boards of commissioners are going to town. The irony is that more people seem to be smoking dope, which I believed 30 years ago would have made for a more aware populace. So much for that theory.

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